What are the more serious GSD lines? - Page 12 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #111 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
@Espo4442..... I don't question what you say about Max and damline. Actually, I found that the dam line is capable of good aggression. But there are other dogs in the pedigree that factor in. I have had two dogs from Ellute in Grandfather role and neither had good aggression. Excellent nerve, great grips, and great prey but not what I consider active aggression. Actually, I like Max's dam line better than sire line for source of active aggression. I've had granddaughter of Beemoan Bee, another solid dog, but not active aggression. Grief, and Tito were good source, as could be Querry, but when you talk about Sandy/Sven, who I have had DDR dog linebred on Sindy, the active aggression was not there, nor was there hardness or dominance. I personally do not feel that Sven/Sindy were good source of dominance or active aggression, but there was one breeding with Sandy that produced crazy aggression to the point the breeding was forbidden to be repeated.
Look, I'm not saying you can't get active aggression from Max or the breeding, but I still would not go to that breeding in looking for active aggression because there is not the balance I would want to see long term. Having said that, I'm happy the breeding turned out well, as there are some good dogs in the pedigree.
Cliff no worries at all, and I agree with the initial analysis...tends to look very sporty and high drive. I believe the aggression and Anger the dog exibits in the blind comes from Bemoan mixed with your orry further strengthend by the mother line. Zybnek mentioned that Bara z oplovny was a very nice female. You were correct in speaking to the Sven/Sindy breeding I just had a typo lol!
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post #112 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 06:38 PM
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I tend to not comment on specific dogs....I am pretty hard core critical, people take things way too personally and have enough people ticked off at me I understand because people used to come on here and say the sire of my Kyra was an absolute turd etc etc - it can sting when it is your dog's immediate family and someone is critical or nasty (in your mind) - I tend to look at pedigrees and try to see what comes from where - knowing that not every pup in the litter will express the same characteristics! But what too many do not fully grasp is that when something is behind a dog, it does not have to be expressed to be carried through to another generation in the future.


I will say that a friend is a very good friend of Max's breeder and I have spent quite a bit of time with her at the 2 WUSV events here, as my friend was their driver at one of them...so I got to know her and her helper who also spent a month here prior to Kentucky. Always curious about pedigrees, one night we got in a discussion about the female who is so prominent as the mother line in her breedings and the temperament that is often seen, as Lisa describes the son Art.....it was very enlightening....the goals and priorities of breeders in Europe are often vastly different than those of breeders here - the culture in dog sport is different and the objectivity of people is often much more realistic and analytical discussion is not taken personally. I met someone connected to Galan Naleg as well, which was also very very useful in understanding their female family.

Have seen quite a few of the dogs bred by the same kennel here, imported a pup for a client down south.....dog is a powerhouse, but very loving with family. But a total butthead in training....luckily the owner did hard hard Labs for field trials all his life and has done very well with the dog who is IPO3, FH (V)....someone experienced could have taken that dog to the WUSV. After seeing so many dogs with this mother line 2 and even 3 generations down, it seems to be very prepotent for temperament (have had several friends breed to z SK dogs, other friends have them from different dams and same sire, some of each have been titled, with my friends C litter doing well - plus an earlier client of mine got another one from a club member of hers from yet another z SK dog).

am I rambling LOL LOL LOL in attempting not to offend anyone?


Lee
Lee, not sure if it was directed towards me or but I wouldn't be offended either way ha! Always look forward to hearing perspectives on dogs and what they see. Good or bad there's always exceptions to every combo and sometimes people take things too personal. Anyway, yes very intersting how much foundation Bemoan had on sk dogs. I would venture to say that Auron is not an exception to the rule on these types of breedings...hard dogs, even harder headed sometimes but lots of dog. Great temperament when not working!
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post #113 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 08:45 PM
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We actually have/had several dogs from the ze Stribrneho kamene in the region. The one young male, his owner loves, because she described him as being like a Mal. Learns fast, very compliant, high pack drive, very high toy drive, clear and sound off the field. His dam is very popular and there have been quite a few pups imported out of her for sport by various males. So far, dogs are young, I do not see the SA that was found in Max, but then, as I said, it is pretty rare now. Maybe they have moved too far away from that foundation that produced Max.

The Dam:

https://www.working-dog.com/dogs-det...neho-kamene-CS

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post #114 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 08:47 PM
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BTW, not saying anything bad or negative. These are all very nice young dogs and puppies. Just different from Max.
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post #115 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 05:36 AM
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Lisa, that pedigree you posted I would have read as producing exactly what you described....capable of very high end sport dogs through both sides.
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post #116 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 08:35 AM
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Nick Vom Heiligenbosch, Yoshy Von Der Dollenweise
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post #117 of 156 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
We actually have/had several dogs from the ze Stribrneho kamene in the region. The one young male, his owner loves, because she described him as being like a Mal. Learns fast, very compliant, high pack drive, very high toy drive, clear and sound off the field. His dam is very popular and there have been quite a few pups imported out of her for sport by various males. So far, dogs are young, I do not see the SA that was found in Max, but then, as I said, it is pretty rare now. Maybe they have moved too far away from that foundation that produced Max.

The Dam:

https://www.working-dog.com/dogs-det...neho-kamene-CS
This dog has lines in common with mine!

This is a good thread, I've enjoyed reading it.
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post #118 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
There is definitely a difference in active aggression/fight drive and reactive aggression/defense. Seeing a video could be helpful.
For sake of discusion, what do you guys see in this video? Not just you Lisa, but everyone. Pedigree for reference. Ivisaruk River vom Lytle


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post #119 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 03:23 AM
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oh boy , not much video to go by -

from the little bit shown - a dog that is stressed , reactive "defensive" aggression .

close your eyes and listen .

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post #120 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 07:28 AM
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Don't have time to read whole thread - will catch up later - but is the Orry being referred to Orry von der Kine, or the Italian Orry?

Orry (IT) CMKU 46238,
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