Linebreeding on Fero and Troll - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Linebreeding on Fero and Troll

How much impact does a 5-5 or 4-4 linebreeding have on a dog's development?

My dog is linebred 5-5 on Fero and 4-4 on Troll von der bosen Nachbarschaft (as well as 5-5 on Askia vom Froschgraben and 5-4 on Datsy vom Gries).

My dog has a somewhat hectic prey drive, which I've read is associated with linebreeding on Fero, but doesn't appear to have any of the environmental issues associated with Fero.

Are these behaviors pre-determined by genetics or the result of upbringing and/or training?

It's difficult for me to believe that character traits of a great-great-great-grandfather, or grandmother, would impact a dog's behavior more than the dog's parents and/or current environment.

A 4-4 or 5-5 linebreeding seems even less likely to have a significant clinical impact if subsequent relatives don't have similar behavior issues.

Nonetheless, many posts mention Fero linebreeding as a negative.

Thanks for any thoughts, comments!
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 02:41 PM
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I assume you mean that the dog is 4-4 on Troll v.d. Boesen Nachbarschaft, and that there is no additional path to Fero. I know the pedigreedatabase site will list everything through the 5th generation that is the same, but it is not really right to list the ancestors of the first linebred dog unless there is another appearance of that ancestor through another path.

BTW - I like Troll. I knew the breeder, dam, puppies etc. of the C-litter vom Maerchenwald (Cora went back to Germany and did well in the BSP, some of her littermates stayed local and trained/titled nearby). This litter was much better than anything else the dam produced with other sires.

So, 4-4 Troll means that Troll makes up twice as much of the pedigree as he would if he only appeared once. That is about the same percentage as if he appeared once in the 3rd generation instead of the 4th, although the genes may not line up exactly the same way.

I was warned about possible teeth and hip problems with doubling up on Troll.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 02:50 PM
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As Uniballer said, your dog is linebred on Troll, not on Fero. Troll produced more the type of his mother than of his sire. I would be looking at other parts of the pedigree, other dogs for the hectic behaviors. I would also be far more concerned with the linebreeding on Dasty Gries than Troll. I have had very negative experiences with Dasty up close (son, grandkids). A dog I avoid like the plaque.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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What are the problems with Dasty offspirng?

All I have found on forum searches are concerns re grips.

Does your experience suggest that a great-great grandfather and a great-great-great grandfather linebreeding transmits behavior consistently?

It seems that such distant relatives would not be important, unless closer relatives (ie parents) also possessed the traits.

Thanks.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oc1979 View Post
It seems that such distant relatives would not be important, unless closer relatives (ie parents) also possessed the traits.
In general, I agree that it shouldn't be super important. But. Sometimes genes do funny things. I believe that there really are traits that skip generations. Some traits might be much more likely to be inherited on the direct male or female lines (i.e. top or bottom of the pedigree). Etc.

On the other hand, my limited experience with dogs whose parents I have known for 4 generations are that they are almost completely predictable in the work. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, you know.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
What are the problems with Dasty offspirng?
Nerves showing up as a lack of clarity. Dogs that got into a situation that made them unsure or uncomfortable who chewed up their handlers (one grandson was just being put away in his kennel). Dogs so terrified of people that had to be put down at a young age. Dogs showing serious aggression to people they have known all of their lives (the one was 6 years old). Basically, a total lack of stability. You would have had to have seen these dogs/puppies to fully appreciate what I am describing.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 03:58 PM
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My 8year old male is linebred 3-3 on Fero. High prey drive and high energy as well. He's a constant mover and spinner and barker if he doesn't get enough stimulation (even as a senior). No environmental issues at all, really solid nerve and temperament. Take him to fairs and festivals, parades, lunch, etc. Loves people, children, pretty much everything except other dominant male dogs, and cats (Which he likes too much).

Love him.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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I wonder if some aspects of dog behavior are similar to some human diseases?

Although you inherit a genetic predisposition to a disease, disease expression depends on the environment you're exposed to.

I suppose linebreeding increases your chances for expressing that trait.

Thanks for your responses.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 04:40 PM
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This is the pedigree for a repeat breeding I have a deposit on. We also have a male that is out of the same dam. Plus we had another female also from the same dam. If you click on the dam (Baghira) you can see she is linebred of Fero, Troll, Fado von Karthago, Arek vom Stoffelblick and Askia vom Froschgraben. I am getting this pup because of our prior experience with Baghira's offspring and how much we like her, I wasn't really buying based on the pedigree per se, but I'm good with it. Pups are due in about 3 weeks, so I'll let ya know .
Layla von Hugelblick - German shepherd dog
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 10:19 AM
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No issue here with Troll or Fero.

Gabor's dog, Drigon, was a Troll gs. Exact carbon copy of him to the bitework and looks. Rock solid temperament, not hectic, intense. Lot of fight drive. He liked the breeding, based on experience and exposure to both Troll and Timmy 1st hand and what they produced.

Enzo is back to Fero, through Cliff. Fight drive, also from Illo.


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