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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-02-2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

As always you hit the nail on the head, thanks.
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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-02-2007, 08:45 PM
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Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Timber1, I made that statement because a lot of breeders believe that the litter should be bred for a purpose. If you are breeding for conformation, for the show ring, your hope is that you will have one or maybe two promising pups in a litter of eight to fourteen. Where do the rest go? Yep, pet homes to be companions.

If you are breeding for working or competition dogs, schutzhund, police work, search and rescue, the chances are you may have several pups in the litter that are just not going to pan out for what you are trying to acheive. These dogs also will go to companion/pet homes.

So we have a lot of puppies that are going to be just companions and that is ok.

Most people that are breeding dogs soley as companions, are not doing anything with their own dogs. I was guilty of this on my first litter, thinking that my dog and bitch were awesome companions and would make awesome companion puppies. They had gone through a basic obedience class, but I had not competed with them.

Since then I have done a bit with both adults and pups. Not only does this test the temperament of the breeding stock, but it really provides the receptive breeder with reams of information, experience, and insight into the dog-world, the problems it faces etc. I guess it is a statement as to the commitment of the breeder. Until, one day they wake up and hear people talk about breeding litters for companion animals and they cringe, for a minute before remembering.

You got a pup as a companion dog that could also do schutzhund and you are very happy with him. Good. It sounds like your breeder was breeding to produce dogs that would perform well in schutzhund. If you check out breeders who are breeding simply for companion animals, a good number of them will be very green and some of them will not be very reputable.

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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-03-2007, 09:01 AM
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Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Selzer, you right regarding my breeder. She breeds for Schuzhund and has been doing so for a number of years. You pre-pay for her dogs and, excluding her right to keep one female, the dogs are sold in the order the payments are received. On the litter Timber was in I had first choice and selected Timber specifically as a companion dog.
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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-03-2007, 09:21 AM
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Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Originally Posted By: Timber1As always you hit the nail on the head, thanks.
Timber - I think you and I read Chris' response differently. The training and testing by an unbiased person to mean reads "titled" ie schutzhund.....

All my breedings "produce companions" - mentally sound, solid social and environmental nerves - Why should a companion home want a lesser pup than a working home in temperament? If anything, the companion home needs the most solid of social temperaments in the litter!

Yes - people looking for pets want that perfect pup - but unfortunately - the first thing out of their mouths is - "I don't want to show - I just want a pet - I only want to pay $300 or $500" They can live in a 200K house and drive a 40K pickup truck but want a cheaply priced pet for their kids. I had a guy whining at me this week, citing all the ads in the paper for pups - they had looked at several litters and he told me of the mother that hid and showed her teeth, the listless and skinny pups in a chicken wire pen and the "rare silver gray" (blue) who was more money than the rest of the litter. He was a car salesman, trying to get me to sell at his price, using his kid's desire as a tool, and I sent him on his way to next Sundays want ads. I can repeat this story in quite a few variations BTW since I have been screening people like crazy on a plush companion lady got mad because I had the audicity to ask HER a question and hung up after telling me it was none of my business where she lived or what size/fence yard she had....

Very few well bred balanced working pups will not make good companions if owners are willing to become educated and dedicate themselves to raising the pup properly. Unfortunately, there are too many people who jump into breeding, buy an adult and start off thinking the buyers are going to flock to their doors because they have a litter. Just look at the ads on the database, look at lists like these - lots of people with pups. How many are workign dogs? How many are buying males and females and just instantly have a "breeding program"? How many are active in schutzhund or even AKC performance? How many have trialed or titled a dog, even one purchased already titled?

This whole thread has been very diplomatic IMO - trying to explain that just breeding working dogs of good lines is no guarantee that you will be able to sell those pups to working homes. A good compaion home who is willing to and can properly care for and raise a working pup is just as desireable as a working home, because there are not enough working homes to accomodate the numbers of pups bred in the US. Sport clubs are too hard to find, and it behooves us to breed for the temperament and balance that makes our dogs stable enough to function as companion dogs as well as working dogs. Carefully considering the comments here, it is being said, maybe TOO nicely, that the OP needs to educate herself - in real life, not just by reading on line - which WILL take years before she understands the breed, the lines, the sport, the training and makes contacts who may decide to buy a puppy from dogs owned by her. Unfortunately, she seems to not be considering this advice very deeply. So to be more clear - working homes with experience are not going to buy pups from someone just because they have them for sale. You must go out and build some recognitition factor for yourself, if you get ONE pup in a litter to a workign home from the first litter, you will be lucky. IF that pup gets titled, then you are very very lucky. You have to start off slowly and build momentum, and train and title your breeding stock and produce to prove yourself and your dogs. Buying a proven female bred to a proven male is not a bad idea. But again, the DB is full of ads like that. How many of those pups make it to workign homes?


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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-10-2007, 11:29 AM
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Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Sorry for stepping in, as I'm not a breeder, but I really would like to put more accent on the future of the litters from working line parents.

Working line pups need special, working homes and many people are willing to get working line pup, promising moon from sky, but pup will end up on chain or in humane society as his/her owners will be too lazy or just to busy to work with the pup or they will not have the power and knowledge that these dogs need. I was working my guts out trying to find suitable homes for one litter of rescue pups and my experience says that it is very very hard task. Out of 12 I'm really happy only about life of 6 pups.

There are many people who like noble look of GSD, like to see their archievments, their titles and perfect beheivior, but how many of them are ready to invest their time and money to rise such a dog? Especially without clubs, training groups and all that staff awailable at the doorstep? I presume, not many.

Just for example - bored to death, untrained and unsocialized Yorkie is still not a serious danger for society, but GSD under these conditions - is.

So before considering about breeding working lines I would reccomend to do the potential market research. Maybe getting into training, establishing the training group by yourself would help you to find the potential future buyers who would be able to learn the difference between 200$ pup from BYB and serious breeding pup, to find future buyers who are not only able to put 2000$ into a pup but many more in weekly training and titling... It may help you to find the realistic current market situation for working lines.

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