Newbie/Questions on Costs - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 01:05 PM
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,816
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

I think what Jean meant was to offer to foster a pregnant mom and deliver the litter/raise the pups, or take in a mom with a litter and foster it for the rescue while you are waiting to start. This way you get hands on experience and learn (making mistakes, etc)and it is before you attempt a breeding program.

Fosters for moms with babies are few and far between and a good start in a foster home can make a huge difference in these puppies lives. Plus you don't bare the financial burden and you can see first hand the pitfalls of placing the pups.

While you have lofty goals, breeding German Working lines requires alot of knowledge not only of the bloodlines, genetics, and structure, but of the working ability of the dogs. I suggest you imerse yourself into Schutzhund and learn about the different ways working a dog will help you evalute nerve strength, temperament and working ability.
djpohn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 04:11 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfstraum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 11,098
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

The whole point of rescues is to NOT produce more dogs but to find homes for unwanted dogs. Looking for a titled papered female to breed via a rescue is contradictory to the goals and spirit of most rescue organizations.

Setting out with a goal to breed good working pups and researching it is all well and good. I would encourage you to get a good female pup from a good breeder and with good bloodlines known for the qualities you want in your dogs, and get that dog titled yourself before you start having litters. Learn what it takes to title the dog, and what qualities your dog actually possesses that are indicated in its pedigree, BEFORE you enter the breeding end of it. Watch the trial results in teh magazines, see what pups are being titled here that are bred here. The market for 8 week old working pups is not as strong as that for show line pups, and many buyers who want a companion pup are not going to want a sable or black puppy, they want that classic "look" of the black saddle on a tan/red dog. Most new owners have not had a GSD before and many are not going to be able to make the committment to the work even a companion puppy with drive needs. The majority of experienced working people want dogs who are older with hips and elbows checked, rather than spending time on a pup and taking chances. If someone has some experience, then they know what lines they prefer and most have some contacts in Europe to help them bring a puppy over. Occassionally, non-novices will buy a puppy, but most pups of working lines go to novice handlers or people just starting in the sport, and many of those buy dogs as recommended by their trainer or bred in their clubs. You have to consider the future of the pups and the suitablity of homes for their characters.

You say there are no dog clubs and no "good" breeders in your area. Where are your puppies going to go? Who is going to train them? Most people do not want, nor can they afford the expenses, to drive 3 hours to train regularly for several years before having the gratification of titleing their dog. Are you experienced enough to help owners train pups who are high drive? You have to gain that experience IMO before you produce a litter.

Many many people have bought titled dogs, bred them and advertise pups for sale. They do not train, they do not trial, and they do not sell many pups to sport homes. You need to consider what type of homes will be available for your pups before you commit to producing puppies, and take into account what level of expertise your future buyers will bring to the table.

Lee

Hexe Sch2, Komet & Kougar IPO1, Kira HGH, SG Bengal, Lynx v Wolfstraum ~ Ziberia IPO1 ~ ATB Basha, Kougar & Kyra, Fenja, Sch3s, Cito, Sch2, DangerRH, Csabre & Alice Sch1s ~Kelsey
wolfstraum.net
wolfstraum is offline  
post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 07:13 PM
Master Member
 
VKristallaugen4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 580
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Lee,
That's very good advice. You're right most "pet folks" only want the "traditional black/tan or black/red".

I have my 13 month old girl in AKC conformation (Am showlines), and I want to get her titled in tracking.

I know in my particular area you don't see a German workingline. Either Am bred showline, German showline, or byb.

Kris K

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Home of Hollow Hills' Leucadia "Leuka"
and Conlee's End Of Summer v Kamelot "Koko"
VKristallaugen4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 69
Send a message via AIM to nwilz Send a message via Yahoo to nwilz
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Lee,
You make some excellent points.
As far as placement, I already have a primary questionaire that would disqualify a lot of people from being eligible to buy a puppy from me. I do not expect to sell my pups in the local area, maybe a few, but I expect most of my pups will go to areas with more resources and to the few people locally who would really value a GSD who is bred for the improvement of the breed. I already have one buyer in CA who's been around my personal, spayed dog, if I go through with breeding who is willing to wait for one of my dogs. I also have to look into the legal side of things (like what if one of my pups ends up in bad hands, can I do a contract where the dog comes back to me immediately?) I want to be prepared from every angle. I know of fine breeders who's dogs have ended up in bad situations so I know it can happen. Also, I don't care if I have to keep every puppy and do my best to title to insure good, experienced home. I would keep my pups before I would risk them going into a bad situation (which to me includes just being a "yard dog"
I really appreciate all the GREAT input as this is all things I want to know and cover before I even really start looking for my first breeding female. I want all bases covered. Everyone has to start somewhere and I finally feel life I am ready....I just want all issues I could face out in the open beforehand.
Also, any suggestions on good sources of information on SCH training, videos, books, etc? I am a novice to intermediate trainer so I am wanting to gain knowledge. Which magazines do I need to be watching?
Thanks so much to you all,
Nichole

Proudly owned by:
Heidi von Wilz
Dance van Dingo's Place
Quork z Elbu
nwilz is offline  
post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 04:46 PM
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
 
Chris Wild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 13,602
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted By: WolfstraumThe whole point of rescues is to NOT produce more dogs but to find homes for unwanted dogs. Looking for a titled papered female to breed via a rescue is contradictory to the goals and spirit of most rescue organizations.
I don't think this is what Jean meant at all. Certainly not to look for a breeding dog through a rescue.

I thought she was suggesting that hooking up with a rescue needing a foster home for a pregnant mom, or mom and pups, would provide Nichole with some good experience in whelping, raising, care and development of puppies. Kind of a win-win. Gain some hands-on experience that will be valuable when she does start breeding, while at the same time helping a good cause. Rescues are always in need of fosters, and ones willing to take on a whole litter at once.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Chris Wild is offline  
post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 05:53 PM
Knighted Member
 
TRITON's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 2,099
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

I would suggest getting out to trials, looking at dogs, seeing what YOU like. Talk to different breeders, competitors, look at as many dogs as you can-....I think that is the best way to get started. People are very opinionated, we all have our favorite bloodlines, ones we don't like etc. You have to learn to sift through the information then and form your own opinions. That can help you set your own goals for your breeding program so you can get started. Then when you get started, I think you have to constantly evaluate your program to make sure you are still moving in the direction you wanted.
As far as buying an experienced female...that is a good way to start. That way you know the health clearances are done, what type of mother the female is, and how she has produced. A younger proven titled female is going to be expensive. So you have to be prepared for that. But then you have to find either a reputable importer or go look at the dogs yourself and know what you are looking at. Everyone selling a dog is usually going to tell you it's the best thing since sliced bread Many people get taken. I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, but it's always buyer beware..Again talk to many people to get there experiences and hopefully with all your research you will be able to avoid alot of pitfalls and select a great female

Trish Campbell

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

SG Harley v Triton BH,AD,T-1,RN,CGC,HIC,HOT
VP Myth v Triton BH,TT, CGC, Branka SchH3, KKL-2
TRITON is offline  
post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 10:14 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfstraum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 11,098
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Yes I agree Chris - that is what I understood too. The OP said she has fostered a mother and litter and if she could find one, she would consider taking a titled female with papers from a rescue as a breeding dog.

Lee

Hexe Sch2, Komet & Kougar IPO1, Kira HGH, SG Bengal, Lynx v Wolfstraum ~ Ziberia IPO1 ~ ATB Basha, Kougar & Kyra, Fenja, Sch3s, Cito, Sch2, DangerRH, Csabre & Alice Sch1s ~Kelsey
wolfstraum.net
wolfstraum is offline  
post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 07:45 AM
Master Member
 
VKristallaugen4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 580
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

Sorry, I must agree, it looks like if she could find a papered pedigreed female, she would consider that too. The way it is worded makes it sound like she would take a titled mother from a rescue as her bredding bitch.

Rescues will NOT let you breed any bitch/dog you acquire from them, it just doesn't work that way.

I commend you for already fostering tho, that's great!

Kris K

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Home of Hollow Hills' Leucadia "Leuka"
and Conlee's End Of Summer v Kamelot "Koko"
VKristallaugen4 is offline  
post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 08:43 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Acton, Ontario,Canada
Posts: 1,408
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

just thinking here on the OP's question and something that hasn't been mentioned.
Is the OP prepared that if something goes wrong she could lose the bitch that cost her $5000+ and the entire litter. There isn't just start up costs to worry about. What if you have a litter of 14 and you can't sell any of them? What if your stud throws megga pups or your breeding pair produces pups with EPI?
just a few things to consider.
Romance is offline  
post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 02:19 PM
Crowned Member
 
EastGSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,755
Send a message via AIM to EastGSD
Re: Newbie/Questions on Costs

I guess my concern is that most of the poster's posts seemed to be geared toward just breeding and getting that litter?

I mean no offense but while I think we all came into this rhelm of the fancy with that goal we all know truely how much education it takes to get to that point to honorably fullfill that goal of our first litter..... IMO the poster needs to be more involved with a club (since they have expressed interest in working lines) and learning about drives and training as well as individual dogs.

I guess what I am saying is that serious breeders have more goals to having a litter other than just to make puppies....I know it sounds crass but it is not meant that way. The poster needs to figure out what she wants in a breeding program and learn to be very specific so that when she chooses her foundation bitch it is with reason and purpose....not just because she had "papers" and was available. Any bitch can have puppies.....but we all know not all of them should and we all know we all have our likes, dislikes and preferences when it comes to lines, temeperament and purpose.

Personally I would like to see the OP develop her opinion and desires as well as knowledge before jumping into a breeding program......I hope that makes sense? That is my very well intended advice on this thread.

JMVHO
Cherri



owned by:

GSDs
Emma and her GerMercian kid
Tobe


And Doxies' Abby and Charlie my Service dude
and Stan and Castor the parrots
EastGSD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Training Costs GSD4LIFE21 Schutzhund/IPO Training 5 03-06-2009 11:30 AM
Vet Costs GSD4LIFE21 Health Issues 16 02-24-2009 10:27 PM
dog food costs tyler Take a Poll 60 02-04-2009 09:03 PM
Hip & Elbow X Ray Costs BowWowMeow Health Issues 16 10-17-2008 11:26 PM
OFA or OVC H/E xray costs ZeusofBillyJo Basic Care 12 02-01-2008 01:18 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome