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Well, she bit me.

15K views 127 replies 39 participants last post by  Mudypoz 
#1 · (Edited)
Took my fear aggressive dog for a walk this morning. She barks pretty regularly now at people and dogs who get too close when she's on leash (and sometimes when she's off leash). We were walking home and she had to pass pretty close to a guy and his two leashed boxers, and of course she barked and lunged at them, and as soon as we were past she nipped the back of my leg.

It didn't really hurt, just a pinch, but yeah....definitely not good. I admit I smacked her after that, I was so mad. And I guess that's just displaced aggression, she probably didn't mean the bite me but felt like she needed to bite something. But after that, I guess she could tell I was pretty pissed off, and then she kept snapping at my hands the whole way home and after we got home. Out of....insecurity? Frustration? Excitement? I have no idea.

Had to take her to the vet right after that to get her spay sutures taken out. I told the vets what she'd done and they muzzled her to remove the sutures, which was fine, she didn't show any aggression at all toward them even before they put the muzzle on.

I'm in a pretty bad place right now. I'm still mad at her and feel like I can't trust her anymore. She's lying on her bed right now, she whined a bit when we got home but I can't even look at her, so she just lay down and is sleeping now (she's had a stressful day I guess). I'm ordering a basket muzzle and prong collar from chewy and I'm preparing to accept that that's just how we're going to have to go for walks now. I have no doubt that she will bite the next person who gets too close, at least while we're on walks. Or she'll bite me again.

I know it's not good that I'm still mad at her, that I can't bring myself to forgive her right now. She's still pretty new to me and I know I need to give her more time, but....I just can't help it. I can't trust her. It sucks because she's sooooo affectionate at home, she's such a good dog and so loving, but I'm so frustrated and I don't know what to do to help her.

I admit I'm even considering whether or not to rehome her to someone who can handle her better. I'm sure that feeling will pass...maybe. Again I'm just not in a good place.

I don't know what I did to her to make her this way. She didn't do this stuff when I first got her. She was scared of stuff, sure, but she didn't bark or lunge at them until about 2 weeks after I got her--she'd just look at them and then look at me, and I'd ignore, and she'd ignore. Now...I feel like I must've done something to encourage this.
 
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#3 ·
For now, get a good pillow to scream your anger out in. She is just a dog with some issues that need to be addressed. Why did you have to get too close to the boxers. There was no other way to wait until they passed or no room to turn around in? Get a good trainer to the house.
Lashing out to her is re-directed aggression on your part as well ironically but understandable. Let things calm down to get on one page with her again. Maybe she is still in pain from surgery. GSDs are very sensitive emotionally so her day is just as bad.
 
#5 ·
It was a narrow part of the trail. I could have moved her off trail and waited for them to pass, but she still probably would have barked and lunged at them. It was a guy and two dogs she has met multiple times on the trail--in fact she played with them yesterday--so I'm guessing part of this was excitement, wanting to play with the dogs and me not letting her. (She did bark at the guy yesterday.)

How long have you had her? Are you working with a trainer? Did she break skin?

Aside from needing to know that..you mentioned off lead. I would not have her off lead at all unless secure in/on your own property.
She did not break skin. It was through my jeans.
I've had her for less than 2 months. I worked with a trainer for two sessions about 2 weeks after I got her because I was worried about her beginning to show signs of fear aggression. The trainer was a positive-only trainer and told me to try to redirect her with treats, which works pretty well for dogs barking at her behind fences (she barks and lunges at them too) but so far hasn't really done much for dogs/people we meet on walks. I contacted a different trainer and I was thinking of trying to get her into some group obedience classes, but they won't start until December.

As for being off-leash; she has good recall and I let her off leash only when I can see that there aren't people around (these are city parks along the river, and this time of year they aren't used much). As soon as I see someone coming I call her back to me and put the leash back on her. I kinda depend on her being able to run around, to tire her out. So far off leash she has barked at people but more often just runs away.
 
#4 ·
I'm so sorry. It has to be incredibly difficult when your trust is betrayed like that.

I am going to side with the others' advice from your previous thread and say slow down. I know she needs exercise but you should probably stop walking her unless it is an empty trail or something similar. Spend time at home with her, building your bond and building her feeling of security. It really hasn't been that long since you've had her and she's been through a lot.

This sounds like fear a based reaction to me, either situational or temperament, we don't know yet. Give yourself and her low stress, low exposure time to find out which it is. If she seems stressed, remove her from the situation. Be very protective of her state of mind for at least a week.

Those are my thoughts. Others will have great advice too.
 
#6 ·
The dog is new to you. There has not been enough time to build a trusting foundation. She is probably still in some pain. You have her leashed which limits her options to act. You did not protect her from a stranger and two Boxers when she was feeling compromised. She redirected to you and then she kept trying to communicate with you by mouthing. I think she doesn't trust you to keep her safe.
 
#7 ·
An experienced trainer familiar with GSDs and a few private lessons would be ideal.There are some excellent books and videos that can give you insight and help.Karen Pryor LAT(look at that) and Patricia McConnell are both very good.It is frustrating and depressing when these issues happen.
 
#9 ·
Yeah that's what the original trainer recommended. We've been working on it.

It's just hard, when people like the one who blamed me for not making her feel safe make those accusations, and I'm like....well should I just not walk her at all then? Walk at midnight when we won't run into anyone else? I feel like walking is and will be part of our routine for as long as we're together, and I'm trying to make things as normal as possible, not put her under too much pressure...but even that isn't right, I guess.
 
#11 ·
Hi again, fear aggression really needs to be dealt with at an early age. Get engaged with a trainer as soon as possible. Again, slow down, it is easy to keep at it looking for instant gratification or confirmation that she is fine or fixed. I have to stop myself all the time from putting my dog into the same negative situation to see if he has improved. It become more about the owner than the dog. Just chill. Another thing that caught my attention was getting home and her lying on your bed and you upset with her - get that dog in the crate!
 
#50 ·
Also sorry I never addressed this specifically--she was not lying on MY bed, she was lying on her dog bed on the floor. I was just still kinda fuming at what she had done, while she rested (yes, that's not productive, and is why I then left to go on a hike and get away from her for a bit---and crated her while I was out).
 
#14 ·
Fear aggression is one of the most frustrating and difficult things dog owners need to deal with.
In my experience, it can’t be trained out, only managed.
This is who this dog is, and very well might be the reason the previous owners gave her up.
No reason to be mad at her. Dogs don't “do things to us.” They just do things, and the things they do are always what is good for them. She saw dogs, felt threatened, and went into defensive mode. And, yeah, because she was all wound up, she redirected on you, because your leg happened to be handy.
It’s time to ask yourself tough questions. Are you prepared to manage a fear aggressive dog, for many years to come?
If so, it’s time to do a lot of research on how to do it. This forum has a lot of info on this, and what it takes to own a dog like this.
 
#15 ·
The best advice I can give for the immediate is do not use a prong collar for this. It will amp her up MORE not less. A prong is going to lead to more redirection. Use a "dominant dog" or slip-lead, if you need control. Even use a cheap-o plastic slip lead you can find in any vet office- I like the plastic round kind because they release easily.

For the time being- take her to seldom used trails. If she has a reliable recall, let her off leash where you can see people coming, then call her in, leash her, and go far enough off trail so she stays "below threshold" (doesn't react). Teach a sit-stay.

Reward for good passes! Treat, tug, "good girl!".

Teach an "auto recall"- when your dog sees someone, always, always call her in, have her sit in a heel position, watch your face, and stay. Always. Soon she'll start doing this without you telling her- this will be her safe space, her safe position. Practice this with a long line or leash on busier trails. Remember to start by taking her far enough off trail so she doesn't react.

Teach her the sit and watch me commands away from any busy-ness- start with no distractions, and work your way up.

Teach her what yes and no means.

Find a so-called "balanced trainer" who you trust. Work with him or her. This isn't the time for all positive treat and click stuff. You are thinking about giving her up- you need something that will work and allow you to be successful.

As for being mad at her- here's a good quote on dogs "The dog never makes a mistake. He is just a dog and he does what he does because he is a dog and thinks like a dog. It is you that makes the mistake because you haven't trained him to do what you want him to do when you want him to do it."

Something to always keep in mind when working with any dog in any venue.

To add, if you are truly afraid of her now, it will be best to rehome her responsibly.
 
#16 ·
Banzai555:
Everyone is trying to be helpful. Hitting a dog is never productive, especially since you indicate that it didn't really hurt. Staying angry, beyond a momentary reaction, is not productive. Your dog can sense that & it will make things worse. I've never stayed mad or held a grudge with an animal before. I've had plenty of wounds & bruises to nurse, because of my dog's hyperactive play, but I look at myself to improve the way I do things.

Guess if I just had my female organs cut out, I'd be a bit grouchy and sensitive.

My dog is 15 months now. I've learned to make it a habit to put my dog in a sit/stay & let other dogs/owners pass in close quarters (whether we have met before or not). While on leash & walking in a park, I've had my dog be friendly with one dog we passed and then react negatively, when we encountered the same dog in another part of the park. Something was different the 2nd time.

I've found that it serves me well to be proactive & look at every walk & every trip to the dog park as a possible problem. I can't assume that because things went well with a certain dog or person on one day, that things will be the same on another day. Sometimes, a reaction happens because of some past experience your dog had, that you might not we aware of.

There was a situation at the dog park yesterday. Another GSD owner brought his dog into the enclosure & ended up having to take his GSD immediately out. He said that his dog had recently had an encounter with another GSD & now has an issue with his dog being aggressive with any GSD he meets. Thankfully, he was closely monitoring his dog & took him out as soon as he started to negatively react to my dog.

I think there is value in focusing on prevention.
 
#17 ·
I strongly suspect that this dog had issues long before she came to you. The angel dog that you had those first two weeks was a natural response to being displaced, alone and afraid. She had no one but you so she hung on to you with everything she had.
The bite, and I use that term loosely, sounds more like a hurry up nip. Pretty common in herding dogs, used to hustle us along. Shadow nips at my butt if I am being slow, I can easily see your dog thinking that she really wanted out of that situation NOW! Of course she needs you to move quicker to accomplish that.
A narrow spot on the trail, two large dogs and a man, she's not quite herself and you are hesitating. Look at that from her point of view. Not condoning the action, just giving you a different perspective.
As I have suggested before, you need to slow down. I think you have a great dog (under all the horse poop, there is a pony), I think you are a good choice to own her. Type A, control freak. She will need structure and routine, a drive to help her succeed and a soft hand. But for heavens sake, let her catch her freakin breath!
 
#18 · (Edited)
I had a fear aggressive rescued dog, so I didn’t know his past history. Once we were walking down our own street and a woman came up to say hello. I immediately got him out of her reach, behind a bush and she moved toward us and waved her hand in his face so he could sniff it. While I was warning her off, he barked and his tooth cut her hand. It was all her fault but I still paid the hospital bills and I didn’t argue or complain. After that, I only took him places where there was plenty of room to avoid strangers. It was often inconvenient and a few times we debated whether we wanted to keep him, but he was very gentle and mellow at home, so we did. We had to manage him the rest of his life.

Your dog hasn’t bitten anyone yet, so he doesn’t have a bite history. If you don’t think you are up for this, rehome him now. There is no reason someone should have to keep a dog they are not comfortable with or equipped to deal with. If you had him from a puppy, I would say keep him and work with him, but in my experience, fear based aggression reinforces itself. An owner needs to know how to stop it or it will escalate and get worse. It never goes away on its own.
 
#19 ·
Ok I'm going to preface that I did not read all the responses. I have a female (6.5 yrs old)that is a poorly bred byb dog that we've had since a puppy. She has terrible nerves. She is fear aggressive, leash reactive, noise fearful, hasn't met another female dog she likes, hates cats. She is also the biggest love bug at home. Do I trust her with others ...NOPE! Do I love her to death...absolutely! Is she a good dog...mostly. She needs management.
We spent a lot of money when she was young on a trainer. One on one training. He was great and helped us a lot to understand our girl and her limitations. The most important words he ever spoke to us and repeated many times over and I agree with wholly.

"If your dog fails YOU failed your dog"

He said this from a training standpoint. Never, ever set you dog up to fail because you will be failing your dog.

I'm not judging you or saying this to be mean to you but you failed your dog. You said yourself you could have moved off the path. Why didn't you? You set her up to fail and she did...and now your angry with her....it was on you...sorry if that hurts your feelings. It's the truth.

Am I saying you can't walk your dog...NO... I am not. Watch your dog, look at her reactions, be attentive to what she is seeing and how she is showing you her discomfort/fear. You need to respond appropriately because she can't. Not yet anyway.

It took a long time. I still don't trust my dog in certain situations but I can and do let her run off leash in certain areas. I am in constant awareness of our surroundings. If I see another person and or dog within 50-60 yards I leash up my dog and head in the opposite direction if I can. If I can't change direction I still leash my dog and give any passers by a wide berth. I have many times been on walking trails where we stepped of into the woods to ensure both those passing and my dog are safe and behave appropriately. I never assume that just because one day an interaction with a strange or relatively strange dog went well that it will be a repeat performance the next time.
We have good days and bad days on walks. Some days nothing phases her and all is good. Other days I know walking out the door she is going to be an arse the whole walk because she just can't help herself. It's always up to me to make sure she behaves appropriately and is corrected if she doesn't.
So... have I made mistakes and let my dog fail? You bet I have! and still do some days when I'm off my game. I own it. I don't blame my dog I blame me. She can't help what she is genetically.
My point... your dog is always going to need to be managed and it's up to you to do so. It's really not that hard. See someone with another dog/s coming...move further away. Give them and your dog room. Learn your dogs language. Give her and you time to know each other before you (like those before) bail on her. Is she perfect...obviously not...but are you? Please step back, give the both of you time to learn about each other and don't force a perceived lifestyle on either of you. Give it time to find your own groove with each other and please look into a breed knowledgeable trainer to help you and your girl along the way.
 
#25 ·
I didn't move off the path because I really couldn't (we were as far to the side as we could have been). I've been trying various things to try to get her to just ignore dogs/people, so I was going for "put myself between them and just keep moving in an effort to teach her that she doesn't need to react and they'll go away". So yeah, that didn't work. I was kinda afraid LAT was just teaching her to pay MORE attention to things, knowing that when dogs/people approached I'd stop the walk and give her a treat.

There have been a lot of responses to this and I have read them all, I assure you. Sorry for the delay--I went on a hike with a friend (without the dog) to cool off and try to get my head back. Right now I guess I'm thinking we'll cut our walks down from 2 a day to 1, and try to avoid people/dogs as much as possible during the 1 walk, keep her under threshold, and otherwise try to just give her exercise in the backyard. She sucks at fetch, but she does love chasing balls and sticks and then prancing around with them, sometimes entertaining herself throwing them back up into the air and chasing them again. So if I can tire her out that way, great. I also ordered a puzzle feeder so she can entertain herself that way, and I'll try hiding treats around the house I guess.

And yes I hate myself for smacking her, I just felt like biting me is unacceptable and she needs to know that. She does it a lot too when we're out in the backyard and she's all worked up because we've been playing with the ball or zooming around the yard; she bounds up on her back legs like a kangaroo, punches me, and sometimes bites my hands. I don't know how to react to this other than ignore her and/or tell her "NO!" and then have her sit, but whatever I do, she's not really getting the message--she keeps doing it. I guess if it's a nervous thing, then my yelling at her isn't going to fix it, so...I'll go back to ignore?

I'm still really not feeling good about all this. I don't want to rehome her, honestly, for her own sake--I'm her third home already and I really don't want to have to put her through the stress of doing this all again. I am not afraid of her, just afraid of what she'll do to other people. But I guess right now I feel like I'm a horrible person and I can't help her because I don't know what the heck I am doing, and all my attempts at doing the "right" thing are just going to make her worse. Yes, my expectations when I got her are making this all worse, because her previous owners outright lied to me about her. I guess it should have been a red flag to me that the lady didn't seem sad at all when she gave her up.
 
#20 ·
Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth. My Shelby is high content GSD. Got her as an 8 week old shelter pup. Shelby is a special cupcake. She likes her safe places, which are - her house, her yard, and her car. Shelby does not like to go for walks. She barks at people, constantly looks over her shoulder, and rushes to get back home. Fortunately, she is fearful, but not fear aggressive.

Shelby is 5 years old now. You have not had your dog very long. You do not know each other very well. Really up the obedience. Not only will you tire your dog mentally, you will help to build the bond. Teach your dog to look to you. Seriously, I worked on having Shelby make eye contact with me. Use hand signs more and talk less. Stay home with your dog. I'm not sure being out and about on narrow trails, especially while she is recovering from surgery is the best idea.

If/when you must walk, her attention should be on you. Avoid other people/dogs, as much as possible. Cross the street, walk the other way, whatever it takes. Do you have any yard at all? Shelby gets exercised in my yard. You don't even need that much space. Shelby loves her flirt pole. She also has an extra large solid ball. I throw the ball up the hill. Shelby runs up the hill, soccer rolls the ball with her paws and chases it down the hill. In both cases, her tongues is hanging out, when we stop playing. You won't get that on a walk. The third thing is the pulley system. My son made it for his own exercise - pulley, rope, bucket of sand. It soon became Shelby's toy. She treated it like a tug, but always pulled the bucket to the top. A tired dog is a good dog.

I cannot emphasize the bonding enough. You need to learn and respect your girls' thresholds. She needs to learn to trust you and know that you have her back. She may never be a go everywhere kind of dog. You might have to change your expectations.

Not sure if this link with work. I'll give it a try.
 
#101 ·
Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth. My Shelby is high content GSD. Got her as an 8 week old shelter pup. Shelby is a special cupcake. She likes her safe places, which are - her house, her yard, and her car. Shelby does not like to go for walks. She barks at people, constantly looks over her shoulder, and rushes to get back home. Fortunately, she is fearful, but not fear aggressive.

Shelby is 5 years old now. You have not had your dog very long. You do not know each other very well. Really up the obedience. Not only will you tire your dog mentally, you will help to build the bond. Teach your dog to look to you. Seriously, I worked on having Shelby make eye contact with me. Use hand signs more and talk less. Stay home with your dog. I'm not sure being out and about on narrow trails, especially while she is recovering from surgery is the best idea.

If/when you must walk, her attention should be on you. Avoid other people/dogs, as much as possible. Cross the street, walk the other way, whatever it takes. Do you have any yard at all? Shelby gets exercised in my yard. You don't even need that much space. Shelby loves her flirt pole. She also has an extra large solid ball. I throw the ball up the hill. Shelby runs up the hill, soccer rolls the ball with her paws and chases it down the hill. In both cases, her tongues is hanging out, when we stop playing. You won't get that on a walk. The third thing is the pulley system. My son made it for his own exercise - pulley, rope, bucket of sand. It soon became Shelby's toy. She treated it like a tug, but always pulled the bucket to the top. A tired dog is a good dog.

I cannot emphasize the bonding enough. You need to learn and respect your girls' thresholds. She needs to learn to trust you and know that you have her back. She may never be a go everywhere kind of dog. You might have to change your expectations.

Not sure if this link with work. I'll give it a try.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjS...ZwwM2AZ-S6lusxUAnxBPVuqKaQv3BQ0uDflkLsdCwM9Zk
Ingenious set up !
 
#24 · (Edited)
I didn't teach her. She is self taught. I think she grabbed the end of the rope one day, realized there was resistance from the bucket of sand and - GAME ON! HA!.

It is really hard to teach Shelby things. She is incredibly sweet and I love her to death, but she is probably the dumbest dog I have ever seen. She does, however, have excellent problem solving skills. Like, she figured out that if the deck gate isn't latched tightly, she can flip it open and go into the yard. She was so pleased, the first time, that she opened the gate, came back, opened the gate, came back - over, over, and over. It's nice to have a dog that can entertain itself. I guess she is a different kind of smart. :grin2:
 
#26 ·
You could try a bite suit and when she realizes biting doesn’t get her anything, she might stop. Negative attention can be rewarding, so she might like your reaction to her bites. Or nips. If they were real bites, she would have hurt you. But is she biting or is she speaking to you with her teeth? Is there a dog club anywhere near you where you can get her evaluated? She may not be as bad as you think she is if you learn better skills.
 
#27 · (Edited)
banzai, GSDs are notoriously mouthy dogs. And no - we don't want their teeth to touch our skin, EVER. I taught my dogs "Gentle" and "No teeth." I did this by hand feeding a bit of kibble every meal. (The kibble I feed is rather small, but you can also purchase sample sizes of a brand you don't normally feed.) Hold the piece of kibble. Softly tell your dog, "Gentle." If she takes it gently - "Good girl! Gentle." If she catches your fingers, "No teeth!" Don't yell, but don't be nice about it either. By this repetition, your dog learns what you mean by gentle and no teeth. That way, when you are playing and things get out of hand, you can use those commands. Also, when teeth are used, play stops.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Of course you were upset that she bit you. My hound mix bit me a few months ago. I was very angry with him. He has always been a resource guarder. I made mistakes, so I have to own it, but I was still plenty unhappy about it. It was more of a tooth drag than a bad bite, but still...

Try not to overthink things. Go back to basics. Start slow. 99% of dog ownership is common sense. Put some kibble in an empty plastic water bottle and let her work on getting it out. Put a treat under her bowl. Puzzles don't have to be expensive. LOL! Teach her tricks. Note something that she likes to do and incorporate that into a trick. My last shepherd always barked when someone came to the door. I taught her to bark on command by using, "Who is it?" Then, when I wanted her to stop, I'd say, "Enough!" Leash your dog and sit on the leash for 30 minutes every day. You can do this while reading the paper, working on the computer, etc. Ignore the dog. Allow her enough slack to lie down - eventually she will. This teaches the dog to relax. I can take my dogs anywhere and they will flop on the floor - even at the vet's.

Take time to enjoy your dog. Really get to know her, as an individual. I think she will surprise you.

Hang in there!
 
#28 ·
I did this by hand feeding a bit of kibble every meal. (The kibble I feed is rather small, but you can also purchase sample sizes of a brand you don't normally feed.) Hold the piece of kibble. Softly tell your dog, "Gentle." If she takes it gently - "Good girl! Gentle." If she catches your fingers, "No teeth!" Don't yell, but don't be nice about it either. By this repetition, your dog learns what you mean by gentle and no teeth. That way, when you are playing and things get out of hand, you can use those commands. Also, when teeth are used, play stops.
This! I hand feed at least 4-5 meals per week. When he was between 8 and 12 weeks I did it every kibble meal. It also helps with bonding.
 
#29 ·
I've been rooting for you and your dog!
I'm so sorry to hear that this happened. :-(

I guess I have a soft spot for her, because my dog came with a lot of "baggage" too (I worried and worked a LOT, before he became the mellow suburbanite pet he appears to be now). Its sounds like there is a good dog underneath - from what you tell of her - but she just seems amped and frustrated. You sound like a good owner who does a lot with your dog.

When Rumo was somewhat reactive to other dogs and not good with passing people, we walked at odd times of the day. (2pm, 7:30pm!) We crossed the street at the sight of another dog walker. We ducked abruptly behind bushes and parked cars. I was careful never to get caught in a narrow path (after a bad incident involving two large poodles). My eyes were always scanning the horizon...it took weeks of training ("Look at Me!") and voice feedback and commands, but it's OK now.

When your dog checks in with you (when passing a stranger or strange dog) that's great! You can say, "Good girl! What a good girl!" And keep that positive relaxed calm upbeat mood as you pass (at a good distance) the other being. Don't crank the leash (you can shorten it subtly, without your dog noticing, by walking your hands up it). Adjust your trajectory gradually so that you are keeping or increasing your distance from them while you pass. Keep trying to get your dog's attention and keep her from getting hyperfocused on that other dog/human.

A group obedience class would be great. She would learn to focus on you in the presence of other dogs/humans. Hopefully she can handle the class - I thought my dog would be crazy, the worst dog there - but when he walked into the room and saw other dogs calmly sitting on their mats, I unrolled his mat (in my case, our bathmat that I grabbed at the last second before class) and he sat on it! Dogs do copy each other...it is cute to see.

Good luck and no judgment here, whatever you decide to do. She just may not be the dog for an inexperienced owner.
 
#30 ·
The reason I suggested rehoming is to offer support if the OP wants to. When I was deep into rescue and ended up keeping a dog we could not find another home for, a trainer said if we wanted a dog we could take places and enjoy like our previous one, we should keep looking. It’s terribly unfair that people give up dogs privately that haven’t been evaluated by a professional and without information an adoptee needs to make the right choice. No one should be forced or guilted into keeping a dog whose behavior they don’t want to deal with. One reason I push people toward using a good rescue is that if it doesn’t work out, the rescue will take the dog back. I know many of us have kept dogs we needed to manage for the rest of their lives. It doesn’t mean that is the right choice for everyone. A busy adult should not have to do deal with bad behavior just because they wanted to adopt a dog and got challenges they didn’t expect. It ends up sucking all the enjoyment out of dog ownership.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I appreciate that. At this point I feel like I'd be giving up too soon, so I'm going to give it some time and just really spend the next few weeks trying to keep her from reacting at all on walks (by not walking her as much and by avoiding people like the plague). I am worried, though, about what I'm going to do with her when I have to spend 11 hour days running a big game check station every weekend, which starts October 26. We have a small travel trailer we use as a base but it's obviously very cramped and I have 4-5 undergrad volunteers helping out. There are people milling around, dead animals coming in, a highway with 70-mph traffic mere feet away....basically lots of stimulation and activity. I can bring her crate along and either keep her inside my truck or outside on a long line (with access to her crate) and away from people, but I'm definitely not bringing her inside the trailer with my volunteers. And then, later in November, when it could very well be snowing with frigid temps outside and we're all huddled in the trailer with the propane heater to keep warm? NO idea what I"ll do with her.

Yeah I'm not looking forward to it at all. I don't have a choice though, unless I want to just leave her at home in the backyard all day and hope she doesn't escape (I have a short section of 4.5-foot fence she could probably jump if she really wanted to.....or she could easily dig out too). If I end up having to make a decision about whether or not to keep her, it will likely hinge on her behavior at the check station. The check station is a major, MAJOR part of my job and I can't not do it. It is not an option.

I guess the other thing I worry about is what would happen to her if I gave her up. I can try giving her back to the lady I got her from, but then that lady didn't seem like she cared too much who got her, plus it sounded like she had to keep the dog in a small dog run all the time because her other dogs were beating up on her. There is actually a GSD rescue here but I went there back in the spring and just...wasn't super impressed by how they ran things, and the owner tried to push this young, completely untrained GSD on me even though I really didn't feel comfortable with it.

I have to ask myself if I am prepared to take on a dog that is great at home but a horror with strangers. Can I manage it? Maybe; but it'll mean completely ditching the dreams I had of a dog who would hike with me, come to work with me, run with me. At this point we can't do any of those things safely. Will it get better with time? Maybe but there's no guarantee.
 
#32 ·
It might get better but usually it doesn’t. I’ve had honeymoon periods where the dog seemed Ok but after a month or to, bam! Their true behaviors emerged. I fostered a different breed for a while, and we had a few signs, but then during the holidays with a lot of people around one of the dogs leaned in for a huge bite of someone’s leg. Luckily they saw it coming and jumped. It sounds like you need a real companion dog you can take anywhere, and she is not going to be that dog. A fast paced work situation in close quarters could be very stressful for her. Since she hasn’t bitten anyone, you could contact a rescue group, tell them the situation and let them decide. You can continue to foster her until they find a home. Just based on my own experience, and your wishes for a go-everywhere dog, she isn’t the right dog for you. She could be very comfortable in a less active home where she wouldn’t need to be exposed to so many strange people and dogs.
 
#33 ·
That's one of the issues with getting Large breed dogs. GSDs are harder than other breeds to teach. Getting adult GSD from shelter is hit or miss situation. Some GSDs in shelters are badly bred and can't work with certain type of handlers. Maybe this one is not for you. Some GSDs are like very fruity and loving. Most of the time it is due to the upbringing and how they were handled. A lot of people get GSDs and dump them in backyard of kennel and don't give them enough exercise. It causes the Dog to become very stressful. When they get chance to be out, they take out stress by biting or aggression. Maybe get a younger pup like 4 months if you can, or get an adult dog that is very lovey dovey and not serious at all (rare). You can get a trainer and teach basic obedience, but you may not develop the bond. Getting mad or upset on dog is useless because dogs aren't humans who do it for revenge or because they are spiteful. There is some issue that needs to be worked on. You may not be the type of handler that is good for this specific dog.

All of my GSDs have been very friendly and open and no dog or human aggression in them. Once I got a pitbull from shelter. She attacked me in same week. Luckily she was chained (I suspected her to be a bit off). I gave her away to another person who had handled such dogs. Later on she had to be put down because she would attack him.
 
#34 ·
Your lifestyle just keeps getting busier and busier, and you don’t have a dog that can keep up with that type of lifestyle. You say you don’t want to give up on her yet, but have you thought about the fact that her behavior and fear is going to continue to be compounded by your super social life? She deserves more than that. And you deserve a dog that can be super social with you. I’m not sure why you went with a GSD, they aren’t social dogs outside their families for the most part, and especially not when they are weak nerved. I would 100% rehome this dog to someone who has a less people active life, and get a breed that enjoys being around people and new places. There is no shame in finding you’re not compatible with a dog and rehoming it. It’s honestly in both of your best interests.
 
#35 ·
I guess because all the other GSDs I've met have been sociable and friendly. I love how smart, active, and loyal they are. I dont know where you're getting this idea that I'm "super social"; I happened to have a couple of friends spend one night at my house, and I have to run a super busy check station for 6 weekends/year as part of my job. Yeah, I was hoping to have a friendly dog I could take around town, but that wasn't a dealbreaker for me. Just a bummer.

Honestly, if Willow just has to become a house dog who never goes out, I feel like I can manage that, it'll just be kinda a bummer. I don't know what kind of situation would suit her; a house in the country with a hermit who never goes out? A professional GSD trainer? What are the odds of finding her something like that? I want her to have a good life. I don't hate her for who she is, not at all; it makes me extremely sad if I can't give her what she needs. I am changing a lot for her, I am trying to manage my expectations, change when things aren't working. Yes, I am learning and I make mistakes. If I had assurances that whoever I rehomed her to could honestly give her a better life and wouldn't just rehome her AGAIN or euthanize her, then I would do it.
 
#36 ·
Rarely are GSDs sociable and friendly without early socialization, either close up or from a distance. My first GSD was very social but the early part was due to excellent breeding and exposure. We got her at 12 weeks and from the ride home, she was around a lot of people. I had a steady stream of activity. I took her to a school twice a day where she was around children. She went on errands with me and she sat with me while I worked. The dogs you meet who are friendly have had good breeding a lot of early exposure. You can’t go back and make that up if the dog never got it. Yes, GSDS can be social in spite of what people here say. I’ve had three that were very sociable, but they were not breed standard, which calls for a dog to be more aloof.
 
#37 ·
I would be OK with aloof; she doesn't need to love everyone. She just needs to not act like she wants to kill everybody she meets. If she ignored people, I would happily take that, that would be fine. And that's what she did the first two weeks I had her; she was suspicious of people but just walked away from them without being aggressive. I don't know how we went from that to lashing out. I didn't even know what her bark sounded like for the first two weeks.

If she was never properly socialized as a puppy, is she like....ruined then? I mean some people are saying give it more time, some are saying it might get better, some recommend training, some say it will probably not get better and I should just accept it and manage it. I can probably manage it, but yeah. It's a bummer, and she will suffer because of it, versus if she had someone more experienced who could maybe work with her.
 
#41 ·
A year ago, my dog bit me twice (and drew blood) on the same day. He's a resource guarder. Needless to say I was really mad at him. The next day was a new day, and I already "moved on." This whole year, I've been working on the resource guarding. I can now take his ball or frisbees away without him growling or snapping at me. I can put my hand in his bowl without him stiffening up and snapping at my hand. He'll always be a resource guarder but I put in a lot of time, effort, and patience to work on the problem.

My dog is also a reactive - I think fear aggressive - dog. Every single dog that he sees, his hackles come up and he barks his head off. When he was a puppy, other dogs barking would scare him and he'd run back home. He doesn't pay attention to me and lunges at the end of the leash. He's pulled me down from his lunging. Many times, it got me upset at him. In the last half a year or so, I've been working on the problem. It's getting better. Not yet perfect. At the very least he's not triggered by all the dogs...just some of them. So it's getting better.

I tell you these 2 stories because I didn't let my dog's serious behaviors get me hating my dog or thinking of rehoming him or whatever. If anything it made me more determined at fixing/managing his "problems." He's not perfect and he still has his moments because he's still not yet 2 years old but I feel good at the progress I've made and am making now.

I'm wondering...do you do any training with her outside, especially on walks? The reason I ask is I found my dog listened to me 95% in the home and almost none at all outside. I figured out that because I never did any training outside...so he thought obedience only belonged in the house. When you're walking her, do some random sits, downs, sit-stays, down-stays, look-at-mes, etc. The whole purpose is not just obedience but to have your dog focused on you, and not on the surroundings. When a dog walks by, distract her with her favorite toy or treat. My dog loves his frisbees above all. So I use it to train him. When we're playing frisbee in the backyard, he'll ignore other dogs, deer, and other animals. He'll take a quick look at them, but he's so focused on the frisbee. Find that something that your dog is crazy about.

Everyone's saying find a trainer...yes, find a good trainer. Or at the very least do a lot of research on the correct way to handle these situations. You can "beat" this. Put in the time, effort, and patience. Don't hold grudges, it's a waste of time and serves no purpose. And remember, they're dogs, not people. Someone told me this when I had my first dog years ago...."they may or may not understand what you're mad at in the moment, but they sure won't understand why you're still mad an hour later."

And by the way, I'm sure most of us will understand if you don't want to deal with this, so don't feel too bad if you decide to rehome her. It takes a certain kind of person to be able to handle/fix/manage a dog like this. For me, I just hate giving up....that's just who I am...so I worked on fixing the problem, including fixing myself. Anyway, good luck and please keep us informed.
 
#42 ·
I don't know what I did to her to make her this way. She didn't do this stuff when I first got her. She was scared of stuff, sure, but she didn't bark or lunge at them until about 2 weeks after I got her--she'd just look at them and then look at me, and I'd ignore, and she'd ignore. Now...I feel like I must've done something to encourage this.
Could have been the "honeymoon period"? Typical with rescue dogs - they are adjusting to their surroundings, getting used to things, and not quite themselves yet. To have been rehomed so much, she must have had some issues - possibly even THESE issues. So don't be too quick to blame yourself...

So...and I'm NOT being critical of you at all...the difference between us might be, after an outburst like that, I wouldn't feel mad. I wouldn't feel that she's defied me, or failed me. I feel like: "Darn, I let her get too close!! Note to self- don't get so close next time! " After my dog calms down, I will enjoy the rest of our hike (but will be listening for people coming up the trail, and will make lots of space between us and them!) So that is...I feel like the responsibility is on me (to manage the environment and teach her what to do, how to behave) and not on her.

My dog has never "redirected" on me though, so I don't know how I'd feel about that! Probably scared of him.

If you don't feel like working through all this (it was a lot of time and daily practice/training for us) I would totally understand. ( I once complained to my friend, "I got a dog to be my walking and hiking buddy, but I don't even enjoy hiking anymore! I'm always watching the horizon for other people and dogs!" )
 
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