Urgent life and death situation! - Page 6 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 128Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #51 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 10:31 AM
Elite Member
 
CometDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 1,751
Oh wow....so much went wrong there.
selzer likes this.

Valor 6/3/17

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- 6/3/17
Blitzen 2/21/19

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CometDog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 10:51 AM
Master Member
 
Shane'sDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunflowers View Post
OK, who else keeps returning to this thread just in case the OP came back, thanked people for taking the time to advise, and posted an update?

This is just another one of those threads started by a brand new member that I'm skeptical of...is it legit or not ?...I always question when the op doesn't appear to even follow their own thread ??...in any case if the "problem" is real it doesn't say much for the adults in this family that they allowed it to get..to this point....

Be kind to your dog..he's only a few years of your life
but you.. are ALL of his life
Shane'sDad is online now  
post #53 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 11:33 AM
Crowned Member
 
Thecowboysgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by CometDog View Post
Oh wow....so much went wrong there.
So upsetting. I've seen plenty of "trainers" bragging about rehabbing aggressive dogs to be service dogs.

It should never, never, never happen.

If you have to fix (or try to fix) aggression or temperament issues the dog is not service dog material PERIOD

That dog locked onto the kid way before he grabbed her. If his handler had been paying attention at all it could have been prevented
David Winners, JonRob and cvamoca like this.
Thecowboysgirl is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #54 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:36 PM
Moderator
 
David Winners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 2,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
So upsetting. I've seen plenty of "trainers" bragging about rehabbing aggressive dogs to be service dogs.

It should never, never, never happen.

If you have to fix (or try to fix) aggression or temperament issues the dog is not service dog material PERIOD

That dog locked onto the kid way before he grabbed her. If his handler had been paying attention at all it could have been prevented
To make this statement, I believe you need to identify aggression. Is it anytime a dog puts it's mouth on someone? Every dog fails. Anytime a dog barks at someone? Again, not one dog passes. Does intent, motivation, circumstance or drive play into what you call aggression?

Unpredictable dogs, fear aggressive dogs, fearful dogs period, do not belong in the service dog field. A clear headed dog that has some defense when pressed isn't a bod service dog in my opinion. The same, CC, GSD or Mal that could make a great sport/LE dog could make a great service dog for the right handler and with the right upbringing, training and upkeep.

Again, what exactly are aggression issues? Barking defensively while behind a barrier? Unacceptable play biting? Biting a perceived threat with intent? Coming up the leash after a correction? How old is the dog? What training has it had?

It comes down to temperament. If you can't read the dog and understand it's motivation and probable reaction to a given situation or stimulus, you are not the right trainer for the dog. If the consensus of your peers, which should include another service dog trainer or 2, doesn't think the dog is right for the job, it just isn't. If you can't reliably take the dog everywhere and put it into any situation with minor supervision, it's not the right dog for the job.
lhczth and Shane'sDad like this.

When a dog saves the life of a man, it becomes clear that partnership knows no bounds.

Fama - T.E.D.D. OEF XI-XII (GSD)(RIP)
Marshall - T.E.D.D. OEF XII-XIII (Lab)(SF EDD)
Lucian - Med Alert / Mobility SD (Cane Corso)
Pud - the old man (Pit x Lab)
Hank - DW Dog (Cane Corso)
David Winners is offline  
post #55 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 02:18 PM
Master Member
 
Shane'sDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
To make this statement, I believe you need to identify aggression. Is it anytime a dog puts it's mouth on someone? Every dog fails. Anytime a dog barks at someone? Again, not one dog passes. Does intent, motivation, circumstance or drive play into what you call aggression?

Unpredictable dogs, fear aggressive dogs, fearful dogs period, do not belong in the service dog field. A clear headed dog that has some defense when pressed isn't a bod service dog in my opinion. The same, CC, GSD or Mal that could make a great sport/LE dog could make a great service dog for the right handler and with the right upbringing, training and upkeep.

Again, what exactly are aggression issues? Barking defensively while behind a barrier? Unacceptable play biting? Biting a perceived threat with intent? Coming up the leash after a correction? How old is the dog? What training has it had?

It comes down to temperament. If you can't read the dog and understand it's motivation and probable reaction to a given situation or stimulus, you are not the right trainer for the dog. If the consensus of your peers, which should include another service dog trainer or 2, doesn't think the dog is right for the job, it just isn't. If you can't reliably take the dog everywhere and put it into any situation with minor supervision, it's not the right dog for the job.

I agree...the few dogs I dealt with years ago trying to get them adoptable.. came to me with a people aggressive--dog aggressive or "biter" label put on them by some human in most cases that turned out NOT to be true I never knew what had actually happened to get the dogs "labeled" just someones story of what they "thought" had happened...as far as i know of nine different dogs only one ended up not being adopted out and she was a mixed breed female who was afraid of dogs-strangers-noises and her own shadow---she ended up being adopted by us because I was sure in the right circumstance she would bite some one...over time she had bonded to me so she lived the rest of her life with us....so yes she had her demons just not to the point of me saying...you need to put her down...
David Winners likes this.

Be kind to your dog..he's only a few years of your life
but you.. are ALL of his life
Shane'sDad is online now  
post #56 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 4
Thank You Everyone!

-Update


Hi everyone! Sorry for not responding and updating you on our situation. As soon as I posted this thread, the system said that the moderators were looking over my discussion and deciding whether or not it was appropriate to post so I realized it would take a long time. Thank you so much for taking the to time help us and reply! Unfortunately, nothing has improved. We tried setting boundaries such as not letting her in our rooms, no praise until she does something praise worthy and constant training. For example, keeping her stimulated and making her do commands and gaining her respect. We also did E-collar training in the house for a couple days as well however on a low range of course around the 10-20 powers. We also walk her every other day also. However, just recently a couple minutes ago my mom finished cooking scrambled eggs and ham for Klio (she didn't have the plate of food in her hand) however, she just approached Klio and greeted her first saying "hi Klio" to check if it was okay and safe for herself and Klio before giving her the food. She held her hand out not reaching over Klio's head and her palms were facing upward leveled low as if you were feeding a horse. However, Klio silently growled and charged at my mom again. My mom got so scared she ran on top of the kitchen table. As you can see my mom is trying really hard to improve her relationship with Klio. Klio has already intimidated and attacked my mom 5 times her lifetime. I don't understand what's wrong with her. I think she might show favoritism? Because we had a bird before named Phoebe and she was a green cheeked Conure and I spent most the time with her, however she suddenly turned so aggressive towards me and was so sweet to my sister. But, one day she got mad at my sister and started to be more affectionate towards me. Do you guys think that may be the case? If it is what'll happen if she starts to dislike me as well?

I also forgot to mention that Klio was just getting over a phantom pregnancy. But how come she not aggressive towards me? A quick history behind Klio and my mom's relationship: My is actually the one that trained Klio and took her to puppy and intermediate obedience training classes ever since she was a puppy. Basically, my mom is the one that spent most of the time with her and devoted her energy into her.
KacieGSD is offline  
post #57 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 4
Hi everyone I just recently replied however its getting reviewed by the moderators. But a quick update on our situation:

Some info about our household:

We are a pretty active household consisting of 4 members in total including myself. I'm 16 years old, my sister is 19 years old and currently in college so she's quite far away, my dad is 50 and my mom 46 years old. Some traits about ourselves, I'm the one that usually fools around and plays with Klio, my sister also used to do that as well, my dad gives Klio the least amount of attention. Only says hi to Klio when he comes home and that's it. And then... there's my mom. She does everything for Klio. My mom has this side to her where she loves to take care of animals. Ever since she was little she told me she rescued baby birds that fell out of their nests in her hometown where she grew up in. She's a very loving person. So you get the memo, she plays with Klio, trains her, cooks for her and maintains her. We've had Klio since she was 8 weeks old. And that's how long she's been training her for 8 weeks to 6 years old. We (well mostly my mom) took her puppy training and obedience classes and that's when we realized she's highly intelligent.

- recent update

We started to set boundaries for Klio such as not letting her in our rooms, only giving her affection and praise when she does something that pleases us, and we also started to do treat training and also using the E-collar every now and then. We also walk her every other day. We thought she was getting better, however just a couple minutes ago my mom cooked scrambled eggs and ham for Klio. Without the plate in her hand, my mom walked towards Klio and said "Hi Klio" to assure her that "im ok" and also to check if she was safe herself. However, Klio started to silently lift her lips up and charged at my mom again and did the exact same growl/bark and went after my mom until she had to run on top of our kitchen table. I seriously don't understand Klio. She recently started to get over a phantom pregnancy but I don't think that means that dog would go to the lengths and show favoritism? If she does show favoritism what happens if she starts disliking me?
KacieGSD is offline  
post #58 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 07:07 PM
Crowned Member
 
Thecowboysgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
So upsetting. I've seen plenty of "trainers" bragging about rehabbing aggressive dogs to be service dogs.

It should never, never, never happen.

If you have to fix (or try to fix) aggression or temperament issues the dog is not service dog material PERIOD

That dog locked onto the kid way before he grabbed her. If his handler had been paying attention at all it could have been prevented
To make this statement, I believe you need to identify aggression. Is it anytime a dog puts it's mouth on someone? Every dog fails. Anytime a dog barks at someone? Again, not one dog passes. Does intent, motivation, circumstance or drive play into what you call aggression?

Unpredictable dogs, fear aggressive dogs, fearful dogs period, do not belong in the service dog field. A clear headed dog that has some defense when pressed isn't a bod service dog in my opinion. The same, CC, GSD or Mal that could make a great sport/LE dog could make a great service dog for the right handler and with the right upbringing, training and upkeep.

Again, what exactly are aggression issues? Barking defensively while behind a barrier? Unacceptable play biting? Biting a perceived threat with intent? Coming up the leash after a correction? How old is the dog? What training has it had?

It comes down to temperament. If you can't read the dog and understand it's motivation and probable reaction to a given situation or stimulus, you are not the right trainer for the dog. If the consensus of your peers, which should include another service dog trainer or 2, doesn't think the dog is right for the job, it just isn't. If you can't reliably take the dog everywhere and put it into any situation with minor supervision, it's not the right dog for the job.
I don't know exactly how to answer that except to say that I think, especially in light of today's service dog issues, more than ever before:

Dogs in that role need to be the absolute best of the best, safest of the safest, and avoiding even the appearance of impropriety so to speak.


Sure any dog can do anything at the end of the day. But many trainers aren't as good as they think they are and on top of that sometimes dogs surprise the good ones.

I'm all for re purposing second hand dogs as SDs if the ppl are knowledgeable and have done everythinf they can to test the dog, know the dog, and feel confident it is as safe as any dog can be in public.

I just do not support anything remotely risky or questionable when it comes to SDs.

I washed a really good dog who passed his health clearances and is basically a safe, great dog, because he is too talkative and could rarely grumble when someone stared him in the eyes. Its too complicated a thing to really explain. Bottom line, I have faith in him but I also know with enough time and miles he would probably eventually be put in one of the millions of difficult sitations SDs deal with and he will growl. And I won't work him in public because I'm not going to be the other end of one more story about an unsuitable service dog. He is a big, pointy eared dog and he will scare someone.

I believe he is a safe, good, stable dog and the times he has growled I think most ppl would agree were not even inappropriate for the breed or situation, but it is inappropriate for that line of work.

He competes all over the place with me and has been in crowds and all sorts of wild situations as a non service dog so I feel I know him pretty well.

These are just my opinions. Mine is that for the sake of every other disabled person who needs access with their dog we have to hold ourselves and our dogs to the very highest standard.
JonRob likes this.

Last edited by Thecowboysgirl; 09-25-2019 at 07:09 PM.
Thecowboysgirl is online now  
post #59 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 07:20 PM
Crowned Member
 
Thecowboysgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,174
"Some defense when pressed"... i am not sure what you mean exactly. Pressed how?

Early in my partnership with my first SD we went thru airport security and they handled her about as rudely and stupidly as you can a dog. I did not know how to advocate for her and I didn't. She was fine, not upset, not offended, just fine.

I had a child sneak up behind us in the grocery store and bounce a balloon off her head. She was fine. Steady as a rock.

Stuff like that happens, sometimes despite the handler's trying to protect the dog.

I want to work with the dog who is least likely of any dog on earth, to lash out at a stupid human in either a display or an actual bite.
JonRob likes this.
Thecowboysgirl is online now  
post #60 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 07:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
"Some defense when pressed"... i am not sure what you mean exactly. Pressed how?

Early in my partnership with my first SD we went thru airport security and they handled her about as rudely and stupidly as you can a dog. I did not know how to advocate for her and I didn't. She was fine, not upset, not offended, just fine.

I had a child sneak up behind us in the grocery store and bounce a balloon off her head. She was fine. Steady as a rock.

Stuff like that happens, sometimes despite the handler's trying to protect the dog.

I want to work with the dog who is least likely of any dog on earth, to lash out at a stupid human in either a display or an actual bite.
Dead on. Thanks for stating it so well.
JonRob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome