Urgent life and death situation! - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #31 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 12:46 PM
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A rehabilitated biter will still be dangerous in the wrong hands (the general pet owners). Dogs don't forget that biting works well for them. It is a powerful learning experience for a dog. Example; in the training facility where I was trained there was a Rottweiler who had bitten people. They "rehabbed" him through reward and desensitization to the level that he could be among people and did well until.....the vet triggered a button and he bit the vet's face. End of story for the dog. I never, ever trust a biter again.
The way I understand it, the desensitization or training needs to be continued for the life of the dog. I have seen where they recommend testing the dog for backsliding once a week.
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post #32 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 12:53 PM
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The way I understand it, the desensitization or training needs to be continued for the life of the dog. I have seen where they recommend testing the dog for backsliding once a week.
Makes sense. The problem is that triggers can happen anytime, esp. if the dog has been re-homed.
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post #33 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 12:56 PM
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Makes sense. The problem is that triggers can happen anytime, esp. if the dog has been re-homed.
Agree, but the desensitization or training is supposed to make the dog less likely to trigger.

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post #34 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 02:49 PM
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As a rescue I would not rehome or take on any dogs that showed a predisposition to biting. For me once that becomes a dogs default position it's over.
Bud was a biter and would have been euthanized had I needed to rehome. Shadow is genetically incapable of being anything other then a fear biter. Management and ongoing training make her a decent pet. But I would not rehome. Her story ends with me unfortunately.
A dog that is poorly managed and poorly handled and has a startled bite or frustrated bite is one thing. But a dog that makes a habit of mauling people is not a pet and shouldn't be.
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post #35 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 03:27 PM
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I had a fear biter rescue GSD. He was huge, from pet lines and could not have been a better pet, but if he didn’t like someone, out came the teeth. I used a muzzle when I needed to and tranqed him at the vet. I didn’t enjoy the stress. Overall, though, he was a good family dog. When he was new, he once growled at one of my kids who he hadn’t met before, and I went over and hugged my child. He never growled at a family member again. I would never keep a dog that intentionally hurt a family member.

Last edited by LuvShepherds; 09-23-2019 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Darn typos
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post #36 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
A rehabilitated biter will still be dangerous in the wrong hands (the general pet owners). Dogs don't forget that biting works well for them. It is a powerful learning experience for a dog. Example; in the training facility where I was trained there was a Rottweiler who had bitten people. They "rehabbed" him through reward and desensitization to the level that he could be among people and did well until.....the vet triggered a button and he bit the vet's face. End of story for the dog. I never, ever trust a biter again.
Those darn Rottweilers! Black and red German dogs! Everyone who owns them claim they are big babies. Or even babysitter dogs -- remember Carl? Yeah, Carl babysitting the kiddies.

But I remember the Cesar Millan-wannabe who had "rehabilitated" an aggressive Rotty, took it to a mall in Africa, and it full out attacked a small child who was just walking by.

These are formidable dogs folks. Those with good temperament are very unlikely to kill someone. But they can send you to the ER. And one with a bad temperament CAN kill someone. And they do not snap and go from sweet, wonderful family pet to killed a 2 year old overnight. Nope. If you want proof of this, go to wikepedia and look up fatalities caused by dogs. They will give you all the fatalities, year by year, with the type of dog or dogs and their breeds or mixes if known, and they will give you, in most cases a little synopsis of the dog. Most of them say that the dogs had previous incidents, sometimes several.

We own formidable dogs. For many of us, that was part of the package we were looking for. But it means we have to be MORE responsible. Someone with a Yorkie or a Cocker van afford to let their animal be rather snotty toward people. If it bites someone, and they do sue, the likely consequences could probably be born even by me: a fine, a visit to a doctor for a tetnus shot, maybe a little for pain and suffering or a day off of work. And a quick apology would probably avoid even that.

But if your Maligator bites someone who steps on its foot, they are going to take you to the bank. If your shepherd or Rottweiler bites someone, pay day just happened, and not only that, but the homeowner's insurance will raise your rate and or drop you, or force you to get rid of the dog. In fact the court might force euthanasia for the dog.

We cannot train all the children in the US not to run up and hug dogs they do not know. We cannot stop every moron who thinks he is the next Cesar from petting or doing something stupid with our dog because he thinks he is God's gift to dogs.

Keeping an animal who might bite, or one that will bite in some circumstances is something folks need to consider hard and be very clear about. Keeping an animal who will maul a family member that it lives with is not only a personal liability, but it also will affect other owners of the breed when what that dog does gets figured in to the dog bite statistics by breed, or, the fatality by dog statistics.

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Last edited by selzer; 09-24-2019 at 01:32 AM.
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post #37 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by LuvShepherds View Post
I had a fear biter rescue GSD. He was huge, from pet lines and could not have been a better pet, but if he didn’t like someone, out came the teeth. I used a muzzle when I needed to and tranqed him at the vet. I didn’t enjoy the stress. Overall, though, he was a good family dog. When he was new, he once growled at one of my kids who he hadn’t met before, and I went over and hugged my child. He never growled at a family member again. I would never keep a dog that intentionally hurt a family member.
Oh, I dunno about that (the bolded), but then I have brothers...

Odie, Joy-Joy
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post #38 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 02:12 AM
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I wonder how many people try to apply the Cesar Millian methods and get ripped to shreds? Is there a website that shows those statistics? I’d be super interested in those! Too many people on my Facebook groups post about using these methods on their Mal’s at a young age, and they are “perfectly trained.” But none are past the puppy stage. I’m sure in a year from now those same people will be complaining that they tried to alpha roll their adult dog, and it bite and/or attacked.
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post #39 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 08:06 AM
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Nobody lives in a vaccuum. When you decide to keep a dangerous dog but shelter it from the world and all its triggers, who will watch it for you when you go away?

I've been asked to board a dog that cannot be handled in one of my in and out kennels with a guillotine door. I said no, because even though yes I could let it out without opening the door, what happens if that dog has a medical emergency or there is an emergency in the building? I can't enter the kennel and help the dog without being in serious danger and I'm not going to stand by and let a dog suffer and die with no intervention.

Part two: you have to transport this do somewhere sometimes, right? So it's in your car. What happens if you get in a wreck and first responders need to get to you in your car and your dangerous dog is in there? I know any dog could bite under those circumstances but a dog you know is dangerous to begin with is much more likely.

You are never going to ask someone else to take care of the dog for the life of the dog? You are never going to go on vacation? What if YOU have a family emergency? Another dog was brought to me for boarding by owners who knew it was dangerous but thought they knew all the dog's triggers. They thought the triggers would not present here and did not tell me the dog had any human aggression. They were wrong, and within five minutes of walking in the door, owners still present, the dog put me up against a wall with zero provocation and bit me badly a few times. I had no use of my right hand for several weeks and will have a scar for the rest of my life somewhere I wish I didn't. But thank god I have full use of my hand .

You don't live in a vaccuum with these dogs, and you've got to consider who else's life you might change by deciding to keep a dog like this.
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post #40 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 09:09 AM
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@selzer
"But I remember the Cesar Millan-wannabe who had "rehabilitated" an aggressive Rotty, took it to a mall in Africa, and it full out attacked a small child who was just walking by."

Is there ANY documentation of that event? I was recently arguing with a rescue friend and I had said that CM was the worst thing to happen to problem biter dogs and the people who welcome them into their homes. Would love to cite that...
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