It has been a very long time...do you remember me.. - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JenniferAaron View Post
yes.....point taken and you are correct. I've had to learn all of the the hard way rather than the easier/simpler way. I used to think he was a lazier shepherd and didn't require so much...but I was wrong!! I've done him disservice by not giving him all of what he needs. I hope to God that some real changes will show a true improvement.
Please stop blaming yourself.
The dog is who he is.

Please put your children above this dog. He is an animal. We tend to humanize dogs too much.
Rehoming is not a horrible thing. It is actually necessary, if the dog is not a good fit.
Think without your heart interfering. If he does something to one of your children, you will never forgive yourself.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 01:40 PM
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I just want to say I really, truly admire your behavior here. Your response to the situation and how everyone has responded to this thread, you have really inspired me. You are such a wonderful dog mom. You are doing everything right in this situation. I wish you the best of luck, and my heart breaks for you, you seem like a wonderful person. Sending hugs, I am sure this isn't easy.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 02:28 PM
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i ddin't ready your past posts but yea loving your dog is fine, but making sure they are compatible with your existing family is more important.
like someone said, what if something were to happen to your kids.

i don't like to assess dogs over the internet because i simply am not an expert, and more importantly, i'm not there in person to see and feel the dog. we are all just going off of the little snippets of behaviors and little summaries that you provide in word form.

it doesn't matter if you are bringing in a new dog or a new human into your existing family, if they can't get along, then the new addition must go. they are simply not compatible.

anyways, i wish you a favorable outcome.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JenniferAaron View Post
The behaviors are unacceptable though. We bought him from a good reputable breeder, solid bloodline.
Have you gotten your breeder involved, does s/he know where things are at with Apache?
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 03:42 PM
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He low growled at my daughter...when she was walking by in the living room..I wasn't allowing that so I got up walked over to him and grabbed a folder, rolled it up and popped his nose and said NO SIR loudly.....he then showed his teeth and started growling at me...So I repeated popping him a couple of times...(please don't be too judgy on me..I am NOT a trainer.) and he got up and kind of lunged at me, and acted like he was going to bite me ( teeth on my hand) but he didn't penetrate my skin....you could say it was a bite, but he didn't actually bite. Make any sense?
Yes, I'm sure he could have done much more damage to you (or your daughter) if he had wanted to. It's still really alarming though. Did he leave puncture wounds? How old are your kids? As a mother of two young boys, it worries me that Apache is growling at your kids just for walking past him in the room. I think it's phenomenal that you're working with a trainer, and if the trainer is hopeful then so am I, but if you bring him home and find this kind of behavior creeping back in (and it might not!), I'd probably think about re-homing him while you still can. I am really sorry to say that. I know it's not what anyone who loves their dog wants to hear, but if he ends up biting someone (especially a kid) that's a really bad situation for everyone, including the dog. Does he challenge your husband too, or only you and the kids? I agree with others who have said to talk to the breeder, if you haven't already.

Last edited by sebrench; 04-11-2019 at 03:45 PM.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 06:43 PM
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I'll begin by saying that I hope this trainer is good enough....confident enough and cares enough for Apache that he'll take the TIME and put in the effort to gain Apache's trust......I'd have hopes that the problem may be fixable....granted I'm seeing Apache through your words here..not through the eyes of your family...to me it says a lot that IMO he had you right where he wanted you when you had the rolled up folder and yet...he didn't draw blood.......


I hope the trainer if he thinks the situation can work...spends enough time with both you and your husband to get one OR both of you on board for training with Apache....exercising and spending time simply playing with him...it's a recipe that usually doesn't fail with these dogs.....it's clear you've been doing things wrong at home and you already know that.....I do have a question I don't think you mentioned---how is Apache with your husband ?....how do you think Apache sees him ?...does he respect your husband at all in your opinion?....or...does your husband not spend much time with him?


Anyway ...please..PLEASE keep us posted on how this goes for you guys....since I've dealt with problem dogs before I always pull for and believe in the dog... every time....good luck to you and your family...
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 07:18 PM
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I donít think you did anything wrong so much as you didnít do enough right for that dog, if that makes sense, but the dog is not a match for your abilities or for your family. If itís taking an experienced trainer 8 weeks to make a little progress, I think you are not facing reality. GSDs need firm handling from an early age. If they donít get it they develop their own habits. Some dogs are solid enough that weak handling doesnít really affect them negatively. I had a rescue who occasionally fear bit a stranger but was very good with family I didnít do anything wrong, he came that way. I am experienced but I couldnít get him past that, so we managed him. I would not keep a dog that has tried to or might bite a family member. Now that the trainer knows him, please seriously consider giving him up and replacing him with a family dog. Loving a dog sometimes means giving him up.

A woman contacted me about her friendís rescued shelter dog. It was a beautiful young female who had become leash aggressive and the woman was unable to handle him. I offered to help her train the dog, but I soon realized she and the dog were not a good match. It broke her heart but she found a younger couple with GSD experience who had the time and knowledge to handle her dog. The woman is going to either get a Golden puppy or a very carefully selected German Shepherd rescue dog,
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 09:38 PM
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The way I'm reading your initial post and subsequent replies is the absence of what you and your family as a unit is working on while Apache is in training. Since you have already agreed that you aren't a trainer thus lack experience, have you considered going out as a family and just learning about dogs. I.e., visit a dog park (stay outside of the fence and do not interact with the other dogs. It should be considered a training session for you.) and just observe. Observe the dogs. Observed the owners. Then go home and discuss it and research dog body language. Practice with your children things that strengthen self discipline. Practice a daily schedule that you will have for Apache. Play time, the whole family go play as if apache were there. Practice how you should play. Practice walks, full length of an expected walk, and appropriate behavior for calmness. Practice appropriate praise and rewards. Have you talked to the trainer and asked what you can do to instill the changes that you and family have to make while Apache is in training. Practice at home appropriate behavior towards apache with your children while Dh takes on the roll of Apache using different scenarios. You take on apache's character and act out as Apache would and have the rest of the family practice how to appropriately handle you.

These things may sound hair brained (it probably is since it is just my thought process and have never seen it suggested before) and ton of work but if nothing else, at least it will show whether or not the family can stick with a schedule and stick with the changes. If you aren't able to Practice every single day, rain or shine, tired or well rested, in a bad mood or happy mood (no exceptions)while he is in training then imho, you need to contact the breeder or ask the trainer for help with rehoming to an experienced person. If your family fails to practice every single day, then you have your answer as to whether or not the training that is done with him will hold up or come undone.

Fwiw, what I suggested is what I would be willing to do if I were in the same boat. I hope a resolution for Apache is found.

"If you can't see his soul when you look in his eyes, then you need a seeing-eye dog"
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shane'sDad View Post
I'll begin by saying that I hope this trainer is good enough....confident enough and cares enough for Apache that he'll take the TIME and put in the effort to gain Apache's trust......I'd have hopes that the problem may be fixable....granted I'm seeing Apache through your words here..not through the eyes of your family...to me it says a lot that IMO he had you right where he wanted you when you had the rolled up folder and yet...he didn't draw blood.......


I hope the trainer if he thinks the situation can work...spends enough time with both you and your husband to get one OR both of you on board for training with Apache....exercising and spending time simply playing with him...it's a recipe that usually doesn't fail with these dogs.....it's clear you've been doing things wrong at home and you already know that.....I do have a question I don't think you mentioned---how is Apache with your husband ?....how do you think Apache sees him ?...does he respect your husband at all in your opinion?....or...does your husband not spend much time with him?


Anyway ...please..PLEASE keep us posted on how this goes for you guys....since I've dealt with problem dogs before I always pull for and believe in the dog... every time....good luck to you and your family...
Hello! Okay... I can definitely give more information. I know this is the internet so it's really hard to get the best "picture" of this situation.

Apache respects my husband. He has gotten a little bratty with him once in a great while ( maybe if he's not feeling great, he had sprained his leg a couple of times and was grumpy...he would growl a BIT at him also just being a teen i'd call it...and immediately he would feel guilt and rush over to him and lay his head in between Aaron's legs, trying to make up)


He definitely respects Aaron most. When I was sick....I had a BAD flu for a whole week...he layed on my bed beside me the entire time, hardly leaving my side. I know that's not really an important piece of info...but he definitely has a loving demeanor when he's not being a brat.


As far as his trainer goes.....He came and stayed for almost 2 hours, sat and spoke with us and he has been doing this for over 30 years....he seemed down to earth and his main concern is TIME and not RUSH. He really emphasized the time...that it will take to help change the behaviors he's been showing. He doesn't believe in sending a dog off for 3 weeks and expecting a big change, he said that it simply doesn't work that way.


I really am putting so much hope and trust in him...When he returns with Apache ( it's been 8 weeks now. he usually trains dogs for 8 weeks but he told me since Apache is 2 years old and it's time consuming to change those behaviors, he says he spent the first 2 weeks basically trying to earn his trust) when he returns he said he will stay a good two hours and he will hopefully pass the home test he gives him with a 90 percent success...also he will go over details and what WE need to do to maintain the changed behaviors.


I think when I called him..i thought...Gee it's been 8 weeks! Time to get my dog home! He basically let me know it's a job doing this and he's trying to do different training and techniques every week, slowly introducing to him. I'd rather him stay a little longer and actually have success than him rushed back home.

thoughts??
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:27 AM
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From this last post my thoughts: I think you got this. I hope I'm right.
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