euthanizing an aggressive dog - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #31 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
So a dog that has not bitten. Might be civil. Shows traits that can translate into a good working dog. Should be euthanized. Sight unseen.
Who's to say the OP wouldn't just be better off with a lab?
This breed should have a modicum of human aggression. Should be a strong dog, not a powder puff. Dog aggression happens.

I know people with dogs that will bite. My female will bite. My male has held someone at the door. Does that mean they should be euthanized?

I think people on here are awfully quick to euthanize a perfectly fine dog with not knowing all the facts.
Yes there are dogs that should be euthanized, but I dont see anything that has been posted that says to kill the dog.

It's a shame that the euthanasia drum gets beaten so quickly for a dog that hasn't done anything wrong.
I agree. There's also a human at the other end of the leash that is part of the equation, what kind of handling has this dog had?
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post #32 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Once upon a time, I had a dog that reached the teenage stage and decided he wanted to be a butt-head around other dogs. I had him in PetsMart and he lunged at another dog. I had had him to puppy and basic classes, but decided I should get him back into classes, so I called another trainer and explained exactly what had happened.

The trainer thought I was bringing a dog that had already bit three people and chewed up and killed several pet dogs and cats. I finally figured out that folks might tend to minimize when they explain to a trainer what is going on with their dog.

Be that as it may be. The thing is, I think that far more people fail to do what they should when it comes to the disposition of a dog that exhibits inappropriate aggression.

I'm not a bit concerned that people are going to run and euthanize their pet for no reason. I think the opposite is true. I think more folks will try and try and try with a dog until they have lost all confidence in themselves as a dog owner. And then they will try and try and try to rehome a dog that shouldn't be rehomed at all. And it is true that most of the folks who can manage serious aggression in a dog, have enough dogs, and are in no position to take on a project-dog. And failing to rehome or give to a shelter or rescue with full disclosure, they will minimize or omit completely the problems the dog has to get him gone. Because they really cannot euthanize their pet, even if the dog is a serious danger. And then someone gets seriously injured.
Meh, there are plenty of people out there that would take an aggressive dog. Aggression is not a fault in a breed that should have aggression.

Are there dogs that should be euthanized? Yes. Ones that have actually bitten for an invalid reason. But this dog has done nothing wrong.
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post #33 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
So a dog that has not bitten. Might be civil. Shows traits that can translate into a good working dog. Should be euthanized. Sight unseen.
Who's to say the OP wouldn't just be better off with a lab?
This breed should have a modicum of human aggression. Should be a strong dog, not a powder puff. Dog aggression happens.

I know people with dogs that will bite. My female will bite. My male has held someone at the door. Does that mean they should be euthanized?

I think people on here are awfully quick to euthanize a perfectly fine dog with not knowing all the facts.
Yes there are dogs that should be euthanized, but I dont see anything that has been posted that says to kill the dog.

It's a shame that the euthanasia drum gets beaten so quickly for a dog that hasn't done anything wrong.
My personal opinion and observation on this forum is it really depends on the day of the week and which way the wind is blowing on this subject. Seriously depends on how an OP presents their situation. Search and you will find posts declaring a dog unsafe and must be euthanized. Then you will find just as many posts for the dog being judged to harshly and it's the owners fault and the dog should be rehomed to a proper home with training. The cases of each are many times very similar and depends on how the OP in each case comes across as an owner/handler IMHO.

Terminology: Aggressive or civil: Aggressive or defensive: Aggressive or protective; Aggressive or possessive: Aggressive due to lack of respect/training or not aggressive and just lacks boundries. Then you have overall temperament and genetics. And the list goes on.

Personally I can't say if this dog is truly aggressive or not. If I were to venture a guess based on the tone of the OP. The OP chose the wrong breed of dog and just can't handle what is in front of them. Or maybe just doesn't want to deal with what it takes to manage a breed that has protective, territorial traits by nature. Do I think this dog should be euthanized solely by what the OP has stated as issues...NO. Is it my dog ....NO. It's why I really dislike this type of thread. The OP wants validation from total strangers to do something that should only be done at the recommendation of professionals with experience with working breeds that have evaluated the dog in person.

Sorry for the rant...

@cloudpump I totally agree with you on this one!

Ziva 03.07.2013
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post #34 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Once upon a time, I had a dog that reached the teenage stage and decided he wanted to be a butt-head around other dogs. I had him in PetsMart and he lunged at another dog. I had had him to puppy and basic classes, but decided I should get him back into classes, so I called another trainer and explained exactly what had happened.

The trainer thought I was bringing a dog that had already bit three people and chewed up and killed several pet dogs and cats. I finally figured out that folks might tend to minimize when they explain to a trainer what is going on with their dog.

Be that as it may be. The thing is, I think that far more people fail to do what they should when it comes to the disposition of a dog that exhibits inappropriate aggression.

I'm not a bit concerned that people are going to run and euthanize their pet for no reason. I think the opposite is true. I think more folks will try and try and try with a dog until they have lost all confidence in themselves as a dog owner. And then they will try and try and try to rehome a dog that shouldn't be rehomed at all. And it is true that most of the folks who can manage serious aggression in a dog, have enough dogs, and are in no position to take on a project-dog. And failing to rehome or give to a shelter or rescue with full disclosure, they will minimize or omit completely the problems the dog has to get him gone. Because they really cannot euthanize their pet, even if the dog is a serious danger. And then someone gets seriously injured.
I agree with you when a dog has inappropriate and out of control aggression. I also said no one who can’t handle it should have a dog like this. Only experienced and confident handlers who can manage the dog should own one like this. But so far this dog has not crossed a line. I don’t think anyone who is saying what I am here, would have a problem euthanizing a dog that is dangerous to everyone but I don’t hear that is the case from the OP.

An example of dangerous dogs. My neighbor rescued a mixed breed dog that was supposedly a Ridgeless Ridgeback. It was not. The female was pregnant. She took the dog home and when the puppies were born, the mother bit the vet and seriously hurt his hand. So as soon as the dog were weaned, her vet put the mother down and the woman kept two male puppies, also of undetermined parentage. I saw the dogs recently. They were muzzled and could not get near any other dogs. The woman mostly keeps them locked up in her yard and it’s likely those puppies are growing up to be just like the mom. I will not go near them, even though I met them as young puppies after the mother was gone. I was surprised she kept any, given how dangerous the mom was, but the vet said if she raised them right they would not bite. Maybe, maybe not. The difference is that mother dog gave no warning, she just ripped the vet open. No growl, nothing. The adoptive family could not get near her either. They threw her food on the kitchen floor and closed the door. It may have been because she was pregnant and scared, but to me that would not be acceptable aggression.
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post #35 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 10:40 PM
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I have never had a dog that has had aggression toward people since four months old, that it explodes if someone starts to approach, that requires tons of management and has been to several trainers. That isn't normal. And a dog that hasn't calmed down in 4 years? But as I have said, I haven't evaluated the dog. The owner has lived with the dog and is considering euthanasia. My guess is that the dog is beyond normal management/training/leadership. My guess is that he is stressing his owner out, seriously.
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post #36 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 10:45 PM
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All of the things mentioned can easily be attributed to the owner / handler. That is no reason to kill off a dog.
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post #37 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 10:57 PM
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The dog at least deserves an evaluation with an experienced German Shepherd handler who is familiar with this type of behavior, not just a pet dog trainer. We havenít seen the dog. Itís possible we would agree with the OP. We canít do that here, but someone local on the ground can.
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post #38 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 11:17 PM
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All of the things mentioned can easily be attributed to the owner / handler. That is no reason to kill off a dog.
I disagree. Human aggression at 4 months is not normal or good temperament, I don't care what the lines are, and I really don't care what the handler does. A four month old might if it is starving. A puppy that young does not have appropriate aggression toward humans.

So why do we think that management and multiple trainers, are signs that the owner is a bad owner?

At some point owners can throw in the towel on a dog. A GSD of good character usually has their owner won over by 4 years of age.
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post #39 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 11:33 PM
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Leash frustration can easily appear as human aggression. That is created and caused by the owner / handler.

Suspicion in a pup can be often be seen in a pup a few weeks old and it not considered abnormal in this breed. Remember, the standard says to guard and protect, suspicion and aggression comes with the territory.

Just because YOU don't like or want a puppy that shows signs of HA at 4 months does not mean that the puppy has bad character or bad temperament. It simply means that such a puppy is not your cup of tea.

Management should be practiced until reliable training is in place, that is on the owner. Choice of trainers is on the owner.

A mismatched GSD of good character with an owner that was looking for a sable Golden Retriever will never win its owner over at any age.

Just thought I would mention I recently saw a well bred litter advertised for sale where the breeder made a point of the puppies growling at the breeder when handled and they don't even have their eyes open yet. Do you think you can assess if a puppy has bad nerves at that age? I doubt it.

An owner can throw the towel in any time they want when a dog is not a good match or they simply tire of it. That still doesn't mean you kill off the dog.
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post #40 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 12:10 AM
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@selzer I thought you've posted stories of people misreading your pups and unnecessarily resorting to prongs and ecollars due to what the owners "percieved" as aggression or dominance? People can and do end up with dogs beyond their capabilities and from what little has been posted it's certainly possible here.
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