Eva's alter ego. - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Eva's alter ego.

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this forum and would really appreciate advice's and tips from all GSD owners. I am a first time GSD parent and had thus far have had no problems with my daughter, Eva (18 months now), until she starts displaying an aggressive alter ego.

I will try to elaborate from the time I bought her as a puppy hitherto.

I bought Eva when she was 12 weeks old from a breeder in Rayong (Central Thailand). I already have a male (22 pounds) neutered 10 year old Miniature American Eskimo, Simba (almost 12 now).

Simba had been my only baby until Eva came along. He is a very loving and adorable boy but he never plays with other dogs or pets nor show any interest towards other animals. He's tolerant but can be aggressive when other dogs are too much in his face. Very loving towards people.

When Eva joined our household Simba accepted her but not once played with Eva the playful little pup.

I started training Eva with the basics commands which she excels in. I was then living in my Bangkok house in the very heart of the city. We had a front and back yard but we took both Eva and Simba to the only dog park almost everyday to socialize with other dogs and people.

Eva was a hyperactive little girl (the reason I picked her among the litters). She's very intelligent and had progress from verbal commands to also understand hand signals and gestures. She was doing great and socializes well with all dogs and people.

3 months later I bought 2 Shihtzus, Tia and Hotdog to be additional members of my family. Eva was a very good big sister to them, tolerating the 2 little ones with gentleness.

I thought it was all well and perfect so I bought a poodle, Look Jeen, to be our latest family member. Then Mocca, a Thai Bangkeaw Dog joins us as the youngest family member.

As I wanted them to have land to roam free, we moved to my estate in Northeastern Thailand. With acres of land and 2 ponds they were happy and free. All of them except for Simba (who remains aloof), will wrestle, tumble and swim daily. Our nearest neighbours are 2-3 kilometres away on all sides.

Except for Simba, they will all roam my estate farther afield but never failed to come home, on their own reconnaissance or called.

I never leashed all my babies at our estate. Just a collar on each. They all have perfect recall.

First problem started when Mocca came home with a neighbour's prize fighting rooster in his mouth. Then it worsens, Tia was next, then Hotdog and finally Eva.

The first 3 incidents were bad enough as compensation had to be made. But Eva's incident was not just a killing but rather a rampage on someone else's property that police were called in.

I started fencing my estate and it temporarily solved the problem. Then Eva strikes again

In Thailand, monks collects alms every morning but they had never come near our house as I had signs stating 'Beware of Dogs' at the entrance of our private road.

Well, Eva (16 months then) was not a guard dog material as she never barks at strangers though protective of us, so I thought. The guard dog duty falls upon Mocca, our TBD. Popular guard dogs amongst us Thais.

One morning I heard screams and rushed out the house to find Eva attacking a monk while Mocca attacks another. It was a traumatic and costly experience. It was an incident with much exaggeration on the monks part saying things like we trained our dogs to kill.

Anyway, since monk's are revered here we decided to moved to our other house for some time, also in the Northeast but in a province well known for being the most dog friendly in Thailand. Dogs are allowed almost everywhere here.

All was well again until 4 weeks ago, Eva attacked Simba viciously. I had to grab on to him while he bit down and shakes Simba like a toy. My wife eventually prised her jaw opened with a metal spatula. It happened in our living room on the first floor. Simba suffered 2 puncture wounds just under his neck that required 3 stitches each.

Simba was hospitalised for a week. We did not anticipated another attack because when we brought Simba home, Eva was wagging her tail but 10 minutes later without any provocation, Eva attacked Simba again. This time around, Simba's got 2 puncture wounds and his neck was fractured. He was discharged from the hospital yesterday and still recuperating at home.

From the time we moved to this city, I took Eva along with the others to the park twice daily (2-3 hours each time). In between the time Eva had first attacked Simba, she had attacked a Siberian Husky, a Doberman and a Labrador at the park. The Siberian Husky was badly hurt while the others not serious though.

During the attack on the Husky she accidently bit me on my head when I dove to break them up. She was apologetic and kept licking my wound after the incident.

I almost forgot, when I bought Eva I had gathered some history of her mom and dad. Her dad is a big docile male but her mom had histories of aggressive behaviour and had once seriously attacked a vet while being treated. Also Eva's alter ego never barks or growl prior to an attack thus making her unpredictable.

Please...please! Can anyone help us to sort Eva out. Giving her away is not an option for us but we need her to be able to live with Simba again without fearing another attack on him, our other babies and other dogs or people in general. All advice's are greatly appreciated.

I apologize for the lengthy explanation to my predicament. Thanking all in advance!
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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 10:43 AM
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She is getting older and maturing. The first thing I would do is rule out anything medical. Full blood panel and exam. Some medical issues can cause aggressive behavior. Since this started all of the sudden, that is what I would do first.

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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 02:50 PM
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This is quite a story: I think you should post some pictures of your dogs.

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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 07:17 PM
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I would strongly suggest that none of the dogs be out of the house and off leash with out direct supervision. There are to many factors that can cause problems - and some have nothing to do with you or the dog.
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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 08:32 PM
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I am sorry but some of this is complete and utter negligence...

Your dogs should not be roaming free without a fence to your property..
I see you finally put up a fence...

How did the monk get attacked? Did he illegally enter private property? Did he Jump the fence?

As for the dog attacking your other dogs.. The intervening dog needs to be isolated and separated from the other dogs. Some professional advice and training might help. A dog that strikes without any prior warning.. i.e. growling etc.. Is the most dangerous kind..

Last edited by Lykoz; 12-21-2014 at 08:37 PM.
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 09:05 PM
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I'm sorry but MOST of this is total negligence. You accumulated dogs, did not involve a trainer and left them to their own devices running free. When they do what "free" untrained and supervised dogs do, ie. Killing rampage of local livestock, you come here to find out how to fix but not until after they attacked and seriously hurt 2 human beings while running free and unsupervised.
You failed your dog's, they did not fail you. You had zero common sense to keep them separate after a fight that caused injuries requiring vet visit. Allowed that poor dog to be attacked again and now with serious injuries.
You should keep all dogs separate and leashed at all times until you can bring a very reputable trainer into your home to assess the whole operation and where and how to start training. If your not dedicated and willing to put a lot of work and effort into these dogs, rehome them with someone who will. Your very fortunate you were not forced to have the 2 put to sleep after attacking 2 people. Take control of this situation and get help NOW. Eva is a dog is not your daughter and should not be treated as a person.

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Last edited by Saphire; 12-21-2014 at 09:07 PM.
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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 09:15 PM
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Some dog breeds, like Fox hounds tend to be pack animals, tend to do very well in a large pack. Other dog breeds have a different idea of what a pack ought to be. And yes, you have a pack.

Your dogs are no longer simply pets or your furry children, they are a pack of dogs. They say, two's company, three's a pack. And dynamics are different in a pack. You are not part of the pack. Don't go trying to be some sort of pack-leader, your dogs are smarter than that, they know you have two legs and control the food bins.

Running loose together, your dogs have made their own hierarchy. And dogs that are close in status, are much more likely to tussel. And yes, I am talking bloody wounds. The young bitch is becoming an adult, and she wants to rule the roost. The older eskimo things that is his position and he is not going quietly.

The dogs are roaming freely over land that is pack-property. Intruders beware. Big liability. Dogs should not have that much freedom. Sorry. They shouldn't be deciding where they will go, and for how long, and what they should do today. Because they will find things to do. And, those things are going to probably be expensive.

With some dogs, you could probably never have a problem. Dog roams the neighborhood and escorts the neighborhood kids too and from the bus stop. Everyone loves him, and he never puts a toe out of line. Well, that is a fairy tale dog. I am sure people remember a dog like that, but it is always, someone else's dog they are telling you about. And that perception is often just what they remember. It is an ideal that kicks around in our head when we think about what we want our dog to be like. But it isn't all dogs, and it isn't most dogs.

The reality is that GSDs are not typical pack-dogs like hounds. They can become very territorial given little to no limits and boundaries. They are intelligent, which is not synonymous with being good, obedient dogs that never put a toe out of line. What that actually does is that the dog is always doing something. And some of those things are things we do not want them to do.

Whether the GSD started the thing with the monks or just pitched in and helped out her pack mate, there were two of them, and after the one dog attacked, their was probably yelling and craziness, and a lot of GSDs really don't like craziness. We call them the Fun Police for a reason.

6 or 7 dogs roaming free, swimming in the pond, eating the neighbor's chickens, attacking a few monks -- well it understandable, given the lack of supervision, limits, boundaries, etc.

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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 09:20 PM
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What if those monks had been children.....

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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 09:25 PM
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I wonder if he is trolling us...

2 monks... A fighting rooster... Two houses in Thailand...

Sounds pretty interesting to say the least...

Jokes aside... Property, other animals, humans, and the dogs lives are all in danger...

As is a major law suite...

Like everyone said.

1) Fence the dogs immediately in an enclosure.
2) Seperate the dog that is being aggressive and attacking, the other dogs.
3) Get professional help from a good trainer.

Do this Immediately... In fact do it Yesterday
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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 11:05 PM
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She is maturing, as are her drives. Where she may have been OK with smaller animals as a puppy, she many not be any more (even smaller dogs). She needs to be managed, at least for now. I think you have accumulated a lot of dogs in a short period of time and need to give yourself more time to learn the true temperaments of each dog and how to manage them so that they are not attacking each other or other animals. Eva does not need a large estate to roam, she will need direction and leadership from you as well as daily interaction that exercises her mind and body. I am not at all surprised at the outcome, reading your story. She sounds like a wonderful dog (to her owners) that has too much space and freedom and that is how accidents and attacks happen. How do you exercise her and train her? How much time are people spending with her, making sure her needs are met (as well as the other dogs, individually)?
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