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Multiple Sports

3K views 26 replies 9 participants last post by  DJEtzel 
#1 ·
Do you train your dogs in more than just one area of dog sports? For instance, I'm training Krieger in schutzhund/IPO at the moment, but I'd like to branch out to other venues eventually. Do you feel like this is too much of an overload for a dog, or do you think that a well-rounded dog should be able to perform well in multiple venues? I'm just curious. :D
 
#2 ·
I've noticed the biggest obstacle isn't the dog's willingness...it's time in the day.

I started AKC obedience, added rally, added agility. Then got into SDA and IPO. Well...SDA ended up being Thursday nights. IPO was Saturdays. Agility was on Saturday as well. There goes agility. After going to a training place on Thursday and Saturday (all day Saturday)...the last thing I wanted (or had time for) was to go somewhere on Sunday for more AKC obedience stuff.

The dog was fine with everything, I just realized I couldn't do all those things (and then think about trialing in them) and also do my other chores and things I needed to get done.

I think the trialing really gets in the way...most are on weekends. Most training things are on weekends. If you really want to excel at something like agility...you'll be trialing a lot. That makes it so you can't train IPO (unless you're lucky to have it nearby on weekdays). So the scheduling just doesn't help...
 
#3 ·
I train my dogs in a lot of stuff. Just depends on where my interest is that given week and their skill.

We compete in Dock diving, lure coursing, agility, and disc.

We train/have trained in all of those + nosework, flyball, rally/obedience, herding and tracking.

I love all of the different training ideas and people from each sport. :)

I don't think it's an overload at all as long as they enjoy it. And two of my dogs are not the most well-nerved, either. ;)
 
#4 ·
I didn't even think about scheduling! ACK! Thankfully, I think my situation is the other way around. Rally and agility would be on different weekdays, and training for IPO/SDA would be on Saturdays and/or Sundays, not to mention that I could get additional help on weekdays if weekends didn't work out. Trials would be on Fridays and Saturdays, so as long as I didn't pick trial days that were the same, I should be okay. How many trials did you have to do for agility, though? That's the only part I'm super concerned about.

I was just concerned with overloading the dog. I didn't know if someone had had experiences in which the dog performed much better at one sport and performed poorly at another because it was too much. I'm glad to hear that yours was performing well in all three venues!
 
#5 ·
Thankfully, Krieger is pretty well-rounded and has good nerves. We're working on his foundation for IPO/schutzhund/SDA at the moment. He's indicating articles for nose work, has a great bite, and learns things relatively quickly. I'd like to try to dabble in rally (I feel like that would be the simplest translation from IPO), dock diving, flyball, and agility. He's only seven months old, so I know we'd have a long way to go, but it's nice to get to planning. :) He should have his CGC certificate in about five to six weeks, too, so I'll go for his BH after that. Is it too soon to start training for rally if they're around eight to nine months of age?
 
#6 ·
We trial in agility once every month or two, typically. You can trial as much or little as you want.

As for age, Patton had a rally match last month at 9 months.. you could be trialing at 6 mos if you wanted, just depends on the dog's training really. Never too young to start anything!
 
#11 ·
Is Patton a GSD? The only things that I get nervous about as far as that age goes would be hips and joints. Do you have any issues with either? Or do you have any recommendations on how to start sports earlier without having too much pressure on hips and joints?
 
#7 ·
I think it really depends on:

(1) which sports you want to do;
(2) how similar they are to each other;
(3) how much experience you have in training each sport;
(4) how competitive you want to be; and
(5) your dog's athletic ability, mental acuity, and willingness to work.

Some sports -- lure coursing, dock diving, barn hunt, etc. -- require little or no training. Either your dog wants to do them or he doesn't. If he does, it's pretty much plug-and-play. If he doesn't, you probably could train them, but I can't really see why you'd bother. These are just-for-fun activities; I don't think anyone takes them seriously as a measure of the dog's ability or the trainer's skill.

Other sports require much more training. Agility, IPO, upper-level obedience -- all of those entail months to years of work before you're ever ready to set foot in a ring, and more months or years if you want to reach the top.

The next factor to consider is how similar the sports are to one another. This has pros and cons. On the up side, the more closely one sport resembles another, the less new training you have to do to make the crossover. If you're already training in IPO, then the requirements for AKC Novice obedience really don't require adding on a whole lot of new stuff. If you've trained Utility scent articles, then introductory nosework (to about ORT readiness) is pretty simple.

The downside is that the more closely one sport resembles another, the more likely it is that you and your dog may get confused on the finicky small things that can cost you points in the ring. I managed to lose 20 points(!!) on an AKC Rally Advanced run because I executed the exercises in the way that would have been correct for World Cynosport Rally but was not correct in AKC Rally. Same sport, different rules, worst score ever.

Similarly, I notice that whenever I've been doing a lot of obedience-style heelwork with Pongu (long flowing stretches), his Rally-style heeling (choppy short spurts with lots of starts and stops) tends to suffer, and vice versa. Doesn't matter for Qs, does matter for scores.

Then there's trainer experience and dog experience. As I write this today, I'm pretty comfortable training all the Rally exercises and most of the obedience exercises. I'm a total novice to agility, as is my dog. It's therefore harder for me to train the agility exercises because I really don't have a clear picture yet of what the final finished forms are supposed to look like or how the nuances in training them might influence the outcomes. This means it takes more time and effort for me to reach X level in agility proficiency than it does for me to reach the same level of fluency in other sports that I'm more familiar with.

However, Pongu has a really strong foundational background from other sports and I am pretty good at clicker shaping, so we've pretty much condensed six months of agility foundational work into six weeks. There are some shortcuts we can take after training in other sports that genuine newbie teams can't do.

Then there's the level of competition you want to reach. If you just want to play around in a new venue and have fun, it's not that hard to hopscotch among them. If you want to really master a field, though, it is harder to train simultaneously in multiple sports because you're dividing your efforts and there's only so much time in the day, and only so much mental and physical energy that you and your dog can devote to perfecting the fine points in each sport.

It's also obviously harder to trial in everything at once, since you'll run into scheduling conflicts and at some point most people run out of money for seminars, practice equipment, specialized classes, entry fees, gas, etc. Especially if you're trialing multiple dogs in multiple sports, this can add up FAST.

And then, finally, it varies based on your dog. Some dogs can handle more than others (there's a reason those go-go-gooo!! Border Collies are so popular among cross-sport competitors: they're smart, they work hard, and they never seem to get tired). Some seem to find it easier to keep all the different "jobs" straight in their heads (although, of course, trainer skill makes a big difference there too). Some can't handle that intensity, though, and will burn out.

Personally I think there's much to be gained from training in different sports. You learn different things and get to try out different approaches, and all those skills add to your problem-solving toolbox.

But I also tend to concentrate my trialing efforts in one thing at a time. Right now we're phasing out of Rally/obedience (will probably wrap that up at the end of this year) and shifting more into agility (will probably start trialing in that sport sometime in early 2015). I'm not into dabbling in a lot of things at once; my preference is to concentrate on one thing, achieve whatever level of proficiency I can in it, and then move on to the next.
 
#12 ·
Thank you for all of your input! There was a lot that you mentioned that I hadn't thought of before. The costs are minimal at the moment. We train with one club on weekdays that's only $65 for a six-week class (soon to be $55). The other club that we train with is every other Saturday (unless I want to attend each Saturday) for $25 a class. I know that trialing in IPO/schutzhund/SDA usually costs somewhere between $50 to $75. Does any other trial get much more expensive than that? I can't say I've really found any information on costs for other sports, since I haven't competed in any (obviously, lol).

I really like the idea of phasing the sports in and out. That's a brilliant idea. As I mentioned, we're working on his CGC right now (should have that in six weeks), and I'd probably like to do his CGCA next. His BH would be at 16 months (still 9 months away), and I'd like to throw in some novice AKC rally obedience in there. Per my contract with my breeder, I can't do any high impact sports until he's 14 months old, so agility and flyball kinda seem out of the picture until at least then.

My pup seems like one of the go-go-go dogs; he's got super high drive, pretty good focus, and learns things relatively easily. I think that the fact that he gets bored easily helps out, too, which is why I'm also thinking that different sports may be good for him. Now I'm just nervous about the different styles between sports. I hadn't thought about that so much before.
 
#8 ·
I plan to do the same things so I find this thread super interesting.

My boy comes home the 27th and he's already enrolled in agility. I will also be starting either flyball or puppy pre-K at the same time. I want to start lure coursing, but that will probably be next year as the weather is starting to become unpredictable. And herding is also an option...finally if he likes water, I'll be looking for a dock diving location. Lots of plans for this little boy!!
 
#15 ·
We sound a lot alike! I wish we had somewhere around here where I could find people who know a lot about flyball. I'll be looking into that more extensively once Krieger reaches about a year to a year and a half of age.

Good luck, and I'd love to hear about your progress with your pup!
 
#9 ·
If you have the time, the ability, you'll be fine. Obedience transfers over really quick.

Trialing is how far you want to go. If you want to get a Master's title, or an Mach...you're unlikely to be training for IPO. I'd assume you'll be at a trial every weekend or every other weekend. So you could still train for IPO...but you'll greatly slow that down. Everything is dependent on how quickly you want to succeed or what level you want to get to in the given sport. The more you do, the more likely everything will take longer. Of course...you'll have more at the end, but it just won't come as fast.

Someone focusing on IPO, can get an IPO3 on their dog by the age of 3. If you throw in training in agility and trialing in that...it will naturally just take longer because you won't be 100% focused on one or the other.
 
#13 ·
That's true, too. As of now, Krieger's alerting on command, heeling well (just working on perfecting positioning for both him and me and more eye contact), recalling very well, and has pretty sits and downs. Tracking is coming a little more slowly, lol. Fortunately, I don't have to work very long hours, so I have lots of time to spend with him in the afternoons.

I guess I'll just have to make a list of the sports I want to participate with him in and then find timeframes. I like your idea of focusing hard on IPO and getting (possibly) an IPO3 by the age of 3. I could continue from there. Of course, I can't say that I wouldn't be happy with IPO1 or IPO2 and then waiting a little on the IPO3, either. GAH. I love my indecisiveness. haha
 
#10 ·
I agree about the time issue - and it isn't just the classes but the outside training that you do.

I got Paisley for herding, but we can only do that 1x a week (maybe 2 - it's expensive!). Since there isn't an IPO club around (that is accepting new members, or would even call me back), I started Nosework with her to give her something to do at home to mentally stimulate her (since I don't have my own flock of sheep!). I then found someone to do IPO with, which we go to approx 1x a week - but I do a LOT Of work on my own. Paisley loves them all, but I think I have figured out her "order" in which she prefers things and how I will eventually prioritize things once she starts trailing. I think it is fun doing different sports and I know Paisley likes them all too. She is still young, so I am just kind of seeing how this all pans out :)
 
#14 ·
That's pretty cruddy that you can't find a good IPO club around there. I can't say much, though, because the one we use focuses more in SDA, and that's the club that's specifically for the people who bought dogs from my breeder. I'll probably end up driving about two and a half to three hours down to Birmingham in order to train with more IPO people.

I like the thought of figuring out an order in which the dog likes to do things. If I did that, we'd be doing bitework all day long, hahaha. Maybe I can kinda dabble at first, see what Krieger likes best, and then go forward in those sports.

Good luck to you with your pup!
 
#16 ·
If this is your first dog…and you plan on titling in IPO before the age of 3, I would stop thinking about other sports. SDA helps, and possibly some of your club members and even the helper would know the IPO exercises so you can work those with them, but I can promise you that the other sports will take too much time away from IPO training in order for you to even get an IPO1 by the age of 3.

I train with a group right now and an experienced person has a dog at around 18 months which isn’t ready to trial. This person has already achieved an IPO3 with various other dogs. They don’t do any other sport except for IPO.

The reason I say that, is that the other sports take a lot of time. If you have a goal in a sport, you should aim to achieve that goal and not spread yourself too thin. Things like flyball and agility need special equipment, a group to train/trial with, and aren’t things you can easily do without going to a training facility. Each hour you do that, you’re not tracking, you’re not doing obedience…and unless you’re really dedicated and do take time to do those other things, you’ll see how slowly your dog will progress in comparison to the other dogs.

I guess if this is your first “trial” dog, it’s up to you to figure out what you like to do best. At the end of the day, this will also be your hobby and you need to enjoy it. I know people on this forum that did IPO, got a title, then moved on to flyball because they enjoyed it more. It’s all about what YOU enjoy doing…because as much as you’re excited about some things right now…trust me, you won’t be about all those things. You’ll realize you’d rather focus on one sport because it’s more interesting or the group of people is better. So feel free to try all the other sports, but I’m telling you it’s very hard to do multiple sports at a high level.
 
#17 ·
Yes, I do multiple. I am not actively doing Schutzhund right now but when I did, I trained with my club 1-2 days a week and trained on my own (tracking and obedience) 2-4 times a week. I would also get together with friends and try to do another round of protection work with them during the week.

When I did agility with Nikon, training was once a week with a class/group and then I did drills at home 3-4 times a week.

All my dogs do flyball. Our facility was destroyed by a tornado in July but we had been training with the team once a week, then sometimes we get together the younger dogs and do box turn drills once a week. I train drills on my own at home 1-2 times a week. We do about 1 tournament per month on average, some months 2, some months we have to skip b/c of a conflict.

Nosework class or group training is/was once a week and that is something real easy to keep up with at home or go just about any place and work on hides so when I was preparing for trial, I was training it daily.

Legend is doing disc but not competing yet, he will most likely just the toss and fetch (distance) stuff and some of the UpDog games (not freestyle stuff) so I usually toss a dozen throws for him once or twice a day. These are short throws in my front yard since he's young.

Most of the stuff I do does not take much time. Schutzhund took the most time because even to do obedience I had to get the dogs in the car and drive somewhere. Tracking takes a lot of time finding adequate space and letting tracks age. The rest of the stuff like agility, flyball, disc, and nosework I can do a lot at home, doing drills and focusing on specific aspects of the training without needing tons of space or equipment. A lot of the drills are repetitive and require a lot of speed and drive so we do maybe a dozen reps of something over the course of a few minutes and then that's it for that training session.

We also do dock diving and lure coursing but I don't train for these things. Lure coursing a dog either does or he does not. Dock diving I have no pool or access to water other than a few weekends in August so I just make sure the dogs are comfortable and enter competitions during the summer.
 
#19 ·
Do you train your dogs in more than just one area of dog sports? For instance, I'm training Krieger in schutzhund/IPO at the moment, but I'd like to branch out to other venues eventually. Do you feel like this is too much of an overload for a dog, or do you think that a well-rounded dog should be able to perform well in multiple venues? I'm just curious.
We've participated in agility, herding, tracking, obedience, rally, and lure coursing. There are no schutzhund clubs in our area. What I've noticed is my dogs seem happier when training in multiple sports. With a wider variety of skills to learn, they are much less likely to get drilled on a specific skill. We might spend a day swimming getting in condition for agility followed by a tracking day - doing a little obedience while aging tracks, etc. I think the variety makes things more interesting for them.
 
#21 ·
Flyball is IMO the best bang for the buck! We have a tournament next weekend and it's $32.50 for my dog to run a full spot (run every heat on a normal team both days). Most tournaments have 4-5 races each day and each race will be 3-5 heats, so average out my dog gets about 36 "turns" to race over the weekend for not much more than some agility entries cost just for one run. If he's a start dog, you can almost double the amount of running b/c of false starts ;)
 
#22 ·
You also need to remember that in Schutzhund...its $100 or so for all three phases and it only has to be done once to earn your title.

In AKC titling...it's a little less than $30 a run in my area for agility/obedience/rally and you have to do it 3 times to get your title.
 
#23 ·
For U-FLI flyball the titles take exponentially longer to earn (similar to CPE agility I believe). If you're running on a normal team that is running slower like 20-25sec, a dog can earn about 800 points in a normal two day tournament. A TF to a TFE is a difference of 2400 points, but a TFE to a TFP is 7000 points.
 
#24 ·
Thank you all so much for the advice! I'll be keeping this thread in mind from here on out. We have a lot to work toward. He is my first "title" dog, yes, but considering all the time I have with him, his energy level, and his ability to learn, I don't think I'll be spreading myself TOO thin...I hope. lol. I've loved hearing about what everyone's participating in, too! You all have awesome dogs. :)
 
#25 ·
I agree about IPO being a lot of work. When you think about it, it's 3 sports rolled into one. It's certainly doable to train in other sports in addition to IPO, but it will take up a lot of time.

I love flyball, and I do nosework.

I think picking sports that are similar present challenges like Merciel mentioned, so for me, I'd tend to pick things that aren't going to cause conflict with one another.
 
#26 ·
Yeah...less about spreading yourself thin and more about...if you have 3 hours a day to train, you'll advance much quicker if you spend all 3 hours doing sport X. If you spend 1.5 doing sport X and 1.5 doing sport Y...you won't advance as fast.

And yes...you can't work your dog for 3 hours straight...but it's all the other stuff around dog training (mostly driving) that takes up that time as well.

Also...the more you get into IPO/SDA...you'll see how much a 15 minute bite work session takes out of them, so its not the smartest thing to be exercising/working them hard before that. So...running agility for 30 minutes isn't helpful or doing some other stuff even the day before doesn't help much. Trust me...the helper and you will notice.
 
#27 ·
Also...the more you get into IPO/SDA...you'll see how much a 15 minute bite work session takes out of them, so its not the smartest thing to be exercising/working them hard before that. So...running agility for 30 minutes isn't helpful or doing some other stuff even the day before doesn't help much. Trust me...the helper and you will notice.
This can be said for any sport.

My Border Collie was competing in the national dock diving championship last weekend. He jumped once in practice, and twice for competition. The rest of the time he was hanging out under our tent. I foolishly scheduled a private disc training lesson that evening afterwards. Driving there, I realized my dog was not going to be able to play with any drive or success. He was exhausted. So we worked on my throwing, solely, without the dog.

Two training classes in a room with other dogs on basic skills back to back might be fine, but high drive sports with physical exertion is going to wear on your dogs FAST, so make sure you're giving them breaks, working them out, and trying to stagger schedule if you do start training in numerous sports.
 
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