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Levels of knowledge for the average pet owner.

19K views 105 replies 37 participants last post by  Stonevintage 
#1 ·
What level of knowledge about the GSD do you expect a pet owner to have?

I believe I am above average pet owner in the fact that I researched a little bit about the breed. I know the major illnesses that my dog can get, I know the amount of activity my dog needs and I know that there are show lines and working lines. I have other breeds and I know a little bit about them too.

So what else should people know to make them a better pet owner. Now remember this is a pet and people have family and jobs and lots of other stuff in their lives. Many have multiple breeds and mixes of breeds. So realistically how much information and research do you think that an average pet owner needs?
 
#2 ·
I don't think it's as much about research as it is about being honest with yourself. I think a LOT of working breed pet owners wannabes think "oh, we'll become more active." Or they camp twice a year, but don't really go for walks, or hikes, etc But somehow classify themselves as active people...Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of working breed homes that are really active...but I think most of the time pet owners shrug off the part on EVERY website EVERYWHERE that says "this is a working breed and need lots of exercise and mental stimulation." And just see a fluffy puppy or a "cool" looking adult...I think it's more about selfish wants than anything. Just my .02.
 
#3 ·
As much as possible, and always seeking more. :)

That's not a flippant answer. I do expect that to be true of good owners -- the ones I would be happy to give my fosters to.

As for "average owners," I couldn't say. I tend to interact only with the best and the worst owners, so I really don't have much insight into what "average" might be, beyond that it seems to vary dramatically by region, cultural norms, and so forth.
 
#4 ·
Well... i'm probably a little different, but I learn absolutely as much about everything I choose to engage in... dogs, career choice, how to replace my boat seat cushions, how to make my yard look better etc..
 
#7 ·
You are a little different and that's not a bad thing! :) I'm talking average Joe/Jane off the street. Realistically how much can we expect them to know about their pets? I like knowledge myself. I read a lot and know a little about a lot of different things. But I'm no expert. Nor do I feel it necessary for a pet owner to know that the breed was first exhibited in Germany in 1882 or that Max von Stephanitz was the guy who created them.

I just get the feeling at times that a lot is expected of the average pet owner around here so I really want to know where is the line? What are the important things to know about this dog before buying or rescuing one?

The easy things: How much exercise does this dog need?
How much should I feed it?
What health problems should I be aware of and look for?
How big will it get as an adult? (This one can be problematic for the GSD? Cause talking to different people will get you many different answers)


But then what else? Well with the German Shepherd people will need to know that there are different lines. Show and working. and within each of those lines we have American and German. In working it gets even more complicated because there is Czech, DDR, and others heck I don't even know them all. Then we add in the other Shepherds Shilo, King, Dutch, Berger Blanc Suissie and is it any wonder pet people are confused? Then there are Alsatian which are German Shepherds and Malinois which are a different breed entirely.

So where is that line? How much do I need to know before I go buy or rescue a shepherd and where is one place that I can learn all that info before I buy? Well other than here! :D I have been reading here for about 2 years and I know I've only scratched the surface.
 
#5 ·
Knowledge is a very good tool to have, but it is no replacement for experience.

Both go hand in hand.

The only way to get the experience is to own and train the dog(s).

The knowledge can guide you, as can help from more experienced owners/handlers/trainers.
 
#6 ·
I work in the vet field. I can tell you that the 'average' pet owner does not even come NEAR this forum. They truly, truly believe that Beneful is an exceptional dog food, that flea and HW medication is a luxury, and that a rabies shot and maybe a DHLPP every year is all they'll ever need. They don't clip toenails, they don't even worry about bathing their dogs, and they only seek medical attention for them when whatever is ailing them is already so bad that there's no easy way to control it.

People take a LOT for granted when they're in like-minded communities. We all have a level of aptitude that is well beyond 'average'.
 
#10 ·
The girl who answers the phones behind the counter at my vets office feeds her dogs pedigree. So even between vets knowledge varies greatly.

We have different communities, cultures, income levels. We have urban, suburb, and rural.

With so many differences how can a pet owner find the important things to know before getting a GSD and what are those important things?

Cause I'm really at a loss here. We expect people to pick good breeders, good rescues to not go to BYB or Puppy Mills. So where can they get the correct info. But even more importantly what is the correct info? How much do we need to know?
 
#9 ·
I think an average or even below average level of knowledge about the breed is acceptable so long as people don't keep spouting off about things they know *nothing* about as if they are gospel. You can research issues as they arise. Everyone needs to know basic things about owning a large dog like requisite vet care, how to feed it well, grooming, socialization, and proper shelter, but I don't think breed specific knowledge is that important for the average owner beyond just recognizing that it's a large, active, intelligent breed.


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#11 ·
Everyone needs to know basic things about owning a large dog like requisite vet care, how to feed it well, grooming, socialization, and proper shelter, but I don't think breed specific knowledge is that important for the average owner beyond just recognizing that it's a large, active, intelligent breed.

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So if breed specific knowledge is not that important. How do I pick a dog? Or a breeder?
 
#13 ·
I have a two-sided view on this.

I work for a GSD breeder, and it is our job to communicate to our customers everything that they could possibly need to know about our dogs, everything from training to feeding to elderly lifestyle and medications/preventatives, etc, whether they ask us for that information or not. I have come across some ridiculously bad owners, who even after all of that information is relayed still somehow raise their dog to be aggressive/never house trained/etc. We find that some owners just don't care to listen to us.

Then, I have the view that would be my parent's side. They don't know squat about dogs, but they love them. They know that their nails should be clipped, their fur should be brushed... but they are the average pet owner, and don't know anything about quality food or anything of that nature. To be honest, when we find customers that are paranoid about what food they get and put this that and the other in their food bowls to keep them healthy, it's seriously a red flag to us because we know that they are gullible and will put any chemical or toxin in their dog based on a rumor and know nothing about it. A simple "Your dog can develop testicular cancer" will run them to get them neutered at 9 weeks old, then whoop, therein your dog will not have the hormones to grow properly and oops, you've just caused him to never have full control of his bladder/bowels. But the average owner doesn't /know/ that.

so in general, I think the average pet owner knows absolutely nothing, and a simple look on the internet cannot always change that. We who have experience know what to avoid and know what is good information and what is bad, but they do not. The average pet owner believes anything you tell them, but how often do they come across people like us who actually know a thing or two about dogs? Rarely. It makes me sad, but I see this through and through. I not only work for a breeder, I also work at Camp Bow Wow, and let me tell you that I have never in my life realized that there could be such negligent, unknowing people in the world.
 
#16 ·
I not only work for a breeder, I also work at Camp Bow Wow, and let me tell you that I have never in my life realized that there could be such negligent, unknowing people in the world.
I had a stranger one day tell me that he had a pit bull/akita mix and that the akita would attack and afterword the pit bull side would sit there shaking. I know I just looked at him blankly but what do you say to something like that. He then proceeded to tell me how he had shot the dog because it attacked someone...but it was best dog he ever had. What?!!
 
#15 ·
Ultimately, though, most dogs do just fine in the 'average' house. Look at the movie Marley & Me; if that owner had been on this forum we would have been picking apart that dog's psyche and suggesting crates, training, behavioral specialists... and he was just fine.

When it comes to people who want a working breed, that's where the trouble comes in. Folks who are used to a couch-potato labrador are probably ill-equipped to handle any dog that requires anything more than being let out in the yard to potty twice a day. In that aspect, breeder education is exceptionally important as well as their judgement at sale.
But I don't think we have any responsibility or even *ability* to do anything about the average populace.
 
#17 ·
A lot of people will say that a GSD is not for a first time dog owner. I disagree, but knowledge is picked up by both reading/learning AND experience. You can learn about training dogs in books or on the forums, but you cannot learn to train dogs without a victim. And this is why a lot of us do a WHOLE lot better with our second GSD, yes maybe the first was from a BYB and this one is from a good breeder, but 9-14 years of experience managing that drop-eared dominant stubborn fear-aggressive disaster does go totally to waste.

People talk about red flags a LOT when they talk about finding a breeder. I think breeders have red flags when they talk about potential puppy buyers. A red flag is where your gut says, "don't sell this yayhoo a dog." Some breeders only want to deal with people who have experience with the breed. I think it is more likely that inexperienced buyers land with the inexperienced breeders for other reasons though.

Your more experienced breeders may not be advertising at all. They have people from training classes, dog clubs, and trials contact them and wait for a puppy to be born. Your inexperienced buyer generally wants a puppy that is already ready to go, or is at least on the ground already. They may say, oh yes I want this six-week-old puppy. And you explain that the dog needs to stay with the litter until eight weeks, so come and pick him up in two weeks. Two weeks later you find that he has already purchased a 4 week old dog from someone else.

Inexperienced buyers often choke on the going rate, and want discounts because they just want a dog for a pet. These people are not going to land on the more experienced of breeders. They will be seen through, and most likely they will decide for themselves to go elsewhere.

And it is not like breeders do not yack on the phone with these people and explain about things like why it is still important for people who want pets to get a puppy whose parents were tested in temperament and health, etc. We explain why the dogs should stay with the litter. But in the end, a first-time buyer knows it all, and goes to someone who has a litter he is willing to sell to anyone, right now.

There are first-time buyers who have spent a lot of time on forums who know a lot of the questions to ask. It certainly does not mean the dog is going into the best of hands. If it is your first dog, you might have a step up on someone who hasn't a clue, but even spending months on the forum or in other venues learning about the breed, you cannot look at the pup in front of you and assess that pup for its training style and management style, so you will make plenty of mistakes, and it is a testament to the dogs if they manage to survive a newbie owner.

Not having a shepherd before is a yellow flag. Not having a working/herding group dog is a yellow flag. Not having a dog before is a yellow flag. Never raising a puppy before is a yellow flag. A yellow flag means you have to ask a lot more questions. I think breeders should sell to newbies, but they should get a feel for some level of commitment on the part of the newbie to understand if this individual is going to be totally out of their depth or not.

If you have a dog already, you should know about things like shots, going to the vet, taking the dog to classes/training the dog, exercise and play, how much it costs to feed a dog, whether where you live you have any restrictions on owning a dog, and many other things. You really can't take anything for granted with a newbie owner. And so you start asking some really intrusive questions that don't seem to be related about whether they rent or own, do they have a homeowner's association, do they have a job, and how is the puppy going to be able to be house trained while they are working, etc.

When someone comes to buy a pup, I don't really want to hear the common questions that people tell people to ask. It sounds learned by heart, and most of the time, the people are just looking at the puppies.

I want to hear that the people have a plan. They have a plan for getting the puppy checked out at the vet and vaccinated. They have a plan for training, they know of a trainer who has training classes, and they maybe want to do some obedience or something with the puppy. They have a plan for house-training the puppy, and who will be there to let the puppy out while they are at work. Being aware of some of the common ailments in the breed is good. Having a plan of what they intend to feed the dog. Already having a crate and toys and bowls/supplies is also a positive. Not freaking out if the puppy mouthes them or goes for their shoe laces is another positive.

Your typical pet owner needs to be willing to learn about dogs and problems within the breed. I press training classes because they will meet up with other people over the course of 6 weeks and will learn tons from a decent trainer. And, hopefully, they will sign up again for more classes.

And a puppy owner needs to know when to call the vet or breeder with problems and questions.

People learn as they go with kids. And they will learn as the go with dogs too. You learn more from the tougher dogs or the sicker dogs than the ones that never give you a moment's worry.
 
#18 ·
The thing is, there is a lot or conflicting information out there with many many things. So I think it would be hard to really make a list of what is average/good/bad/exceptional/etc.

IMO

There are tons of vets who recommend crap dog food. Are we really going to argue about what a dog is being fed? If he is doing find on it, leave them be, would you rather the dog starve?

I've seen threads on here about how much a dog should get bathed. Some have said they only bath the dog once or twice a year, but will wipe them off if they have a muddy day or something. Are we really going to argue about a dog that isn't matted with its coat in bad shape?

Crate training. Some people don't see a need for it. Some people put up gates, put them in rooms, etc etc. Are we really going to argue about what would be better? Many dogs and owners make it through puppy hood just fine without crates.

The fact is, there is no one way to raise/have a dog. People will have their opinions on things and do what they feel is best. I wouldn't expect someone to raise their kids how I see fit, I don't expect them to raise their dogs how I see fit. I may talk with them, give them ideas, tell them what has worked for me, and try to help them. However I'm not going to go around calling them a "bad" or less than average dog owner because its not being done MY way.

Unless someone is starving, beating, or just honestly abusing the dog in some way (I don't mean something I don't like), I live and let live.

I don't think that there is really a standard for people to research, at least not beyond the general "is that dog/breed right for me". Many people will research as they go and typically one thing will lead to another and another and another and eventually you have someone who knows more than they did a month ago. People are different like that. Some do it as they go, some dive in the deep end first and some find out as much as they can before hand.
 
#22 ·
I think one thing EVERY pet owner needs to learn to be REALLY good at is reading body language. It amazes me how a lot of people can miss the signs (before the bigger signs) of aggression, and every other emotion an animal feels.
 
#25 ·
So you want a GSD.

There is a lot of variety in the GSD today. In general though, they are a medium to large breed of working dog. They are more aloof than many other breeds and they have a protective side to them. A level of aggression is necessary for them to do their jobs.

They need a good quality food and to watch their weight. There are health and temperament problems in the breed so you need to become aware of them and stay on top of it. They need regular grooming, exercise and vet care.

If you haven't owned them before I would recommend training classes or individual.

Besides exercise your GSD needs mental stimulation or they will find their own outlets and you probably won't like them. If problems arise you don't know the answer to get help soon. They can be the best breed on the planet but if not cared for properly can be a disaster and even a danger.

Some places will not rent to those who have them and some homeowners insurance will not cover them. If they are out of control or have bad nerves they can be a liability.

If you do the things necessary to own this breed they are IMO the best dog you will ever own.
They are Loyal, Confident, Intelligent, Strong, Protective, and above all love their family over anything else in the world.
 
#27 · (Edited)
A good understanding of their lifestyle and homelife (Active/lazy, homebound/social, quiet/loud, kids/other pets/elderly family members... etc.), amount of time they can dedicate, family's needs and structure (Does everyone want a dog? Is the family all on board?), experience level with dogs and their ability to handle the dog (small/medium/large, powerful with a mind of it's own or I'm just happy happy happy happy type dog), what age (Puppy, or Adult?) would fit best, enough time for a puppy? Ready for the hassle of all the puppy training and biting and the good, the bad, and the ugly?.... Basically, a really good, honest evaluation of what is BEST for the household.

Once that's understood..... pick the breeds that interests them within their above criteria, research about the breeds..... rescue or breeder?... if rescue: Call/visit shelters or call rescues for the breeds chosen... let them know what you are looking for. If breeder: research breeders, contact the breeders chosen as a potential match. Give them an honest and accurate account of what you want from this dog.

When they have the dog/pup.... I would expect a pet home to at least teach the dog the basic commands and manners... both in the house and out in public. The dog should still be well behaved.... doesn't take a doggie genius to train the very basics (sit, down, stay, come). I expect the owners to respect others and understand their dog's behavior. By understanding the breed they own, that can fix a lot of the misunderstanding with the behavior issues many pet homes see. They should also play, exercise, and give the dog the time it needs to live a happy satisfying life. Depending on the breed... that will range. The owner needs to be prepared for whatever they choose to get.

Even "just a pet home" should do more research when getting a dog than just "Oh it's cute.... I want now". Unfortunately, more time is spent researching a product at a store that will only last a year at most.... but, don't even have a brain cell twitch at the idea of researching a companion animal that will be sharing their home and lives for the next approx. 10-16yrs. Consumer responsibility.

The biggest thing I see within my location is people getting breeds they have no business owning. If someone works 10hrs a day, comes home and plays games or watches TV for the rest of the evening, eats dinner, and goes to bed...... that home shouldn't have a high energy dog (I would argue to say they should maybe just get a cat). So many issues come from dogs who are under stimulated, not socialized correctly, and bored out of their darn minds. Research research research! If a home doesn't have time for that first step..... don't get a dog.

IMO, that's a responsible 'regular' pet home.
 
#31 ·
Nice post Merciel.

One thing I believe that does not help coming from this forum is calling
average pet owners things like.... idiots, jerks, scum, low lifes and other such terms.

I made many of the mistakes with the first dogs I had as an adult that are roundly criticized on here. I didn't make those mistakes because I was any of the above terms. I simply didn't know any better and as Jane says when you know better you do better.

When I was in my 20's I wouldn't have made it past the first person on a forum who said I was an idiot for making those mistakes.

Teaching doesn't require criticism.
 
#33 ·
One thing I believe that does not help coming from this forum is calling average pet owners things like.... idiots, jerks, scum, low lifes and other such terms.
I agree completely.

For a similar reason, I'm not really sure that threads like this help, however well intentioned they might be, because they too often shade into a condemnation of "average pet owners" as apathetic and uneducated. Then people get sidetracked trying to figure out if the label applies to them (and defensive if they think they're being insulted), when really the label is a total red herring and distracts from any substantive discussion.

I've just become more and more convinced over time that use of blanket labels does not help anyone's understanding of a topic and, if anything, actively interferes with meaningful communication.
 
#38 ·
Well, I'm certainly not going to argue with anybody. I bet it's also quite regional. I'm in Georgia, after all. I imagine that our 'average' is very different from, say, LA or NY in terms of types of dog owners.

Glad other folks have better experiences!
 
#47 ·
I have had dogs my whole life, most of them GSD mixes, but never a pure bred. Didn't know what they "required", but I did know that a good diet, socialization, training, and vet care is needed and that is for any breed. Neither of mine get destructive if they don't get exercise, but will run and play any time they are allowed. They are well behaved and are loved. They are happy well adjusted dogs that succeed in everything I do with them.
 
#51 ·
[/QUOTE]In terms of GSDs, I have fostered many. And, in evaluating potential adopters I take many factors into consideration. But, in the end, the most important factor to me is the person’s ability to engage with the dog in front of them, listen to my descriptions of that particular dog’s behavior, ask good questions as it pertains to that dog and then be able articulate how that dog (not breed) would be a good fit into their home and lifestyle.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I value potential adopters who want to get to know the dog as a dog vs. only seeing that dog through the lens of their imagination of how a GSD will behave. [/QUOTE]

I would agree with this if you have spent enough personal time with the dog. Some rescues run dogs through because they don't have enough fosters. In those cases they need IMO to understand the basic characteristics of the GSD breed. GSDS and Beagles are both dogs with great noses, beyond that forget about it. :)
 
#52 · (Edited)
I would agree with this if you have spent enough personal time with the dog. Some rescues run dogs through because they don't have enough fosters. In those cases they need IMO to understand the basic characteristics of the GSD breed. GSDS and Beagles are both dogs with great noses, beyond that forget about it. :)
Yes, I agree. As I said, I consider many factors when evaluating a match between a potential adopter and a particular dog. "Mindset" as I defined it earlier has always been the best indicator for me. But, of course, I always speak to folks about breed characteristics (when the foster in question is a known breed), but I always bring it back to characteristics this particular dog does or does not show.

The point I was trying to make is that I am I very leery of adopting a GSD foster out to someone whose interest in a dog is less about what they have been told about any given dog in question and more about how they imagine a GSD will 'auto-magically' behave.
 
#53 ·
so, a person has a lot of information on the breed but if the dog
isn't trained/well trained and highly socialized what does all of the
information do?

What level of knowledge about the GSD do you expect a pet owner to have?

I believe I am above average pet owner in the fact that I researched a little bit about the breed. I know the major illnesses that my dog can get, I know the amount of activity my dog needs and I know that there are show lines and working lines. I have other breeds and I know a little bit about them too.

So what else should people know to make them a better pet owner. Now remember this is a pet and people have family and jobs and lots of other stuff in their lives. Many have multiple breeds and mixes of breeds.

>>>>> So realistically how much information and research do you think that an average pet owner needs? <<<<<

[/QUOTE]
 
#54 ·
I was hoping better information would help people make better choices on getting a dog.

What do you consider highly trained and why do you think that is necessary for a pet home? I teach my dogs manners. They sit, they down, they don't jump, they don't beg, they don't lick humans (well except for one who is still working on it) and they are not allowed on the furniture. They walk on a leash and they are behaved at the vets office and with visitors to my house... and a couple of them do some silly tricks. What else do they need?
 
#57 ·
That doesn't seem to contradict what mericel said. I have an old fart too. He can't play fetch like he used to or swim a ton or play the same games but we found new games like hunting box turtles...something he can still catch lol
 
#59 ·
Stimulation is stimulation in the case of turtle hunt I never had him do nose work before that point I had him figure that part out on his own. He finds them by scent and digs me up if they're buried. Works more of his brain than sit stand or down could.

The point wasn't that the dog couldn't live a long time without the training. It is that it is tremendously beneficial to the cognitive capacities of the dogs in the long term. That same research she is applying to dogs applies to humans as well. People with regular mental stimulation are less vulnerable to Alzheimer's and dementia.
 
#64 ·
I work with the "average pet owner" every day. I've learned not to expect much.

However, I *wish* pet owners would educate themselves better, do more research, and be more proactive about their pet's health and well-being. Every day I see chronic ear infections, chronic skin maladies, overgrown toenails, obesity, dogs and cats whose coats are matted to the skin. Not to mention behavior problems that could easily be addressed if their owners had a care to do so. And these are the pet owners who actually bother to bring their pets in for grooming! There are many more pets out there--I see them--who are not even that lucky, and have to live with the owner's irresponsibility, carelessness, and neglect. It makes me mad.

I do what I can to educate, but more times than not it goes in one ear and out the other. Often times what I do is simply damage control; I do everything I can to make a pet feel better, educate the owner, and pray that the owner will do better. Sometimes they do, but most of the time, I see the dog six months to a year later in the same exact condition. It's maddening.

So, in my view, the "average pet owner" is far from the "ideal pet owner". I don't like it, but I'm no longer surprised by the neglect and ignorance.

The ideal pet owner doesn't have to show, trial, work, or compete with their dogs. They just have to understand dogs to some degree and meet the dog's needs. Some dogs don't require much--the lazy, shorthaired, easy-maintenance dog that goes outside to pee a few times a day and cuddles on the couch the rest of the time are about what the average household can handle. Any type of dog that needs attention, training, exercise, grooming, veterinary care, etc. is going to require a better owner than average. People should be doing their research before choosing a breed--you have no idea how many of these clueless Labradoodle buyers have no idea their dogs need professional grooming. I lay most of that blame on the breeders, but at some point, when the dog develops a turtle-shell of matting all over his body, you'd think the owner would get a clue.

The ideal dog owner should understand dog behavior and the basics of training and behavior modification, and should research what type of training works best for their breed. For example, if you're used to training Labs with methods that work for them, you will absolutely destroy an Akbash Dog or an Afghan Hound with those same methods. Only a few people reading this will actually KNOW what I am talking about.

I'm not saying all pet owners have to be experts. I'm saying that they should have the understanding that dogs are dogs, not humans in fur coats. And they should have the common sense to talk to an expert if they have a problem that they cannot figure out themselves.

And most of all, pet owners need to have an open, yet discerning mind when doing research or asking for advice. Other pet owners who have been in the breed about 5 minutes will often dish out VERY bad advice to others, and there are irresponsible breeders out there who dish out disinformation and outright lies to gullible buyers. I understand that, as a new pet owner, it's all very confusing. That's why you need to take your time when doing research, and talk to different people who are in the breed or who are knowledgeable about dogs in general. The average pet owner buys a puppy on a whim because it is cute. The ideal pet owner will spend months to years researching before they choose a breed and a breeder. Those who adopt mixed-breeds should understand basic principles of dog behavior and care.

They should also have a basic understanding of how genetics plays into temperament and behavior. Clueless people get Pit Bulls and they "know" their dog will grow up to be gentle and sweet because "it's all in how you raise them"... some of you are reading this and thinking "well yeah, of course!" But that just isn't true. Breeds have been selected by man to perform certain tasks. If a dog is bred for centuries to attack and fight other animals, it's a bad choice for someone who wants a sweet and gentle dog that wouldn't hurt a fly. Granted, some ABPTs are sweet and gentle, but you are going against centuries of selective breeding to expect them NOT to fight.

Yeah, my standards for the ideal pet owner are pretty high, and possibly unrealistic. In America, every family seems to have a dog whether they need one or not.
 
#69 ·
I actually don't think the advice itself was so bad, it's more that I was super obnoxious about giving it. I was one of those horrible people who walk up to you in the dog park and say stuff like "HEY YOUR DOG IS SHOWING SOME PROBLEMATIC WARNING SIGNS, YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING." Or if somebody had a tiny teacup Yorkie and were laughing about "oh my dog is so brave, isn't that cute!" while it was challenging a massive and occasionally dog-aggressive guarding breed, I would tell them that their dog was not safe (this is not a hypothetical, that one happened).

(yes, go ahead, fling tomatoes and rotten eggs, Past Me deserves 'em all)

A couple of people were gracious enough to forgive me being obnoxious as all get-out, and actually they got on track with advanced training and dog sports with their dogs, and at least one of those dogs ended up getting extremely well trained and titled as a result (I can't take credit for this, all I did was point the owner in the right direction). But other times people were rightly annoyed with me and so now I keep my mouth shut and just try to keep my own dogs out of trouble (which I also occasionally fail at).

The other major problem with the advice I gave is that it was way too complicated for average pet owners to want to do. I would just take it for granted that everybody REALLY REALLY wanted to do intensive training with their dogs (because it's so fun, how could you not?!) and just didn't know where to go for it.

Turns out that no actually most people don't want to compile 20-item ranked lists of their dog's favorite environmental motivators for Premacking, they just want Rover to quit pulling on leash. Oops.
 
#70 ·
The other major problem with the advice I gave is that it was way too complicated for average pet owners to want to do. I would just take it for granted that everybody REALLY REALLY wanted to do intensive training with their dogs (because it's so fun, how could you not?!) and just didn't know where to go for it.
I used to think that, too. That owners would of course want the best for their pets and would be willing to put time and effort into whatever was needed. That all pet owners train their dogs.

Early on in my grooming career, I got a harsh wake-up call. There was a guy who would always bring his Standard Poodle in without a leash. One day I had the door propped open to let in some fresh air, when the guy came in to pick up his dog. Since he never had a leash on when he came in, I figured the owner had him trained and under control off-leash, and I just let him go free into the lobby to his owner. Well, the dog greeted his owner, then walked outside and started sniffing around. The owner called, the dog looked up, and you could see the wheels turning in his head. The owner called him again, this time with a warning tone in his voice, and that dog leapt joyously away, up and down the sidewalk, and then across the street, ignoring his owner's calls. He was bumped by a car, which knocked him over. He got up immediately and kept running joyously down the street as though nothing had happened, and kept running. We lost sight of him and could not find him after canvassing the neighborhood.

Thankfully, he was found the next day, tired and footsore but otherwise unhurt. But that was one of the scariest moments of my life and it taught me a very important lesson. My error was in assuming this man had trained his dog to the point of a solid recall, or at least that the dog would not run away from him. It was foolish of me to assume that, and it was a serious safety risk which could have ended in total disaster and it would have been my fault.

Nowadays I INSIST that dogs be on leashes at all times, whether they "need" them or not, and my property is fenced and double-fenced. Still I get idiots who insist on bringing their dogs without a leash because they don't "believe" in leashes, but that's another issue and a totally different type of pet owner: Equally clueless but incredibly lucky.
 
#72 ·
For the Premack exercise I tapped out around 8, I think. It's been a while. So no, in that instance it wasn't literally 20 items long.

However I did once ask a couple of my fellow foster volunteers to compile 20-point lists of everything their dog(s) liked, including both standard rewards (toys, food, praise) and environmental rewards.

For context: this was when I was first starting out in pet training and was looking for test subjects to help me figure out how to do this effectively, so I asked some of my fellow fosters what issues they were having with their own dogs and foster dogs. I figured that these people would know enough about dog handling to tell me if I was giving really stupid advice, and were also good enough friends to be blunt and honest with me. I ALSO figured that since they were already involved in rescue as volunteers and foster parents, they'd be above-average in terms of their dedication and willingness to work.

I'm pretty sure all of those base assumptions were correct, but as it turns out, even uncommonly dedicated dog people are not willing to compile 20-item lists of motivators. Pretty much everybody in that group quit right there and I never did get to telling them how to deal with the leash pulling. So I learned a good lesson from trying that, although it was not the one that I expected to learn.

oh well, you can never have too much humility
 
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