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GSDs and human emotions

21K views 60 replies 36 participants last post by  cethlen1621 
#1 ·
What emotions do you think GSDs feel? give an example of how you saw that emotion expressed by your GSD. For example I think Zeeva feels guilty if I scold her for not heeling properly. She expresses it by putting her ears back and correcting herself with blinking puppy eyes.

The emotions I most wonder about are: do they understand the concept of fairness? Love? Anger (not human being angry but do they get angry?) Etc...
 
#2 ·
All GSDs (or all dogs, for that matter) don't have the same 'emotional' makeup. There may be similarities but they are individuals, so one can't generalize and say what emotions GSDs feel. Reactions to correction or any other treatment vary from dog to dog.
 
#3 ·
They certainly feel some emotions: fear, love, anger, happiness/content

Though, I doubt they feel guilt. It's more likely that she was upset that you were scolding her not that she feels guilty about her own actions.

I think guilt is primarily a human emotion.
 
#4 ·
Though, I doubt they feel guilt. It's more likely that she was upset that you were scolding her not that she feels guilty about her own actions.
I agree. There's actually an excellent book about dogs and emotion that I highly recommend - For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend: For the Love of a Dog -General Dog Training Books at Patricia McConnell

Patricia McConnell, Ph.D, is a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist and the Adjunct Associate Professor in Zoology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
 
#5 ·
I don't think dogs feel guilt or love. What looks like guilt is fear that they will be punished or that something good will be removed. What looks like love is trust that this trustworthy person will remain trustworthy and keep good things coming my way. Fear is fear, anger is sometimes fear in disguise as in: offense is the best defense.... and sometimes it is just plain anger.
 
#8 ·
I think they do feel love... perhaps not the same kind of love human's feel, though. What is love really? It's attachment, trust, fondness, etc. I think dogs feel all of these things to some degree.

It would explain why a dog likes one member of the family more than others, though he might trust the whole family. He loves his owner more than the rest of the family.

Regardless whether its love or trust, I think the outcome is the same... a loyal companion.
 
#6 ·
If not guilt, what would it be when you get the ears down, tail between legs, "I got into something while you were gone" welcome home? It certainly wasn't fear since Heidi so very rarely got into anything, it was sort of funny when she did. Usually it involved a trash can inspection if there was something interesting in there and I forgot to hide it.

About the only time I ever gave her a strong verbal or other correction was when she went off on other dogs that had the nerve to bark at her ;-) Never did fix that...

I definitely agree with fear, love, anger, happiness, and contentment. There's probably a few more that I can't think of right now. I also agree with Paddy that the emotional makeup is different between dogs. Heidi seemed to be much more expressive across the spectrum than Abby. Anyhow, I'm curious what the others think...
 
#13 ·
Yes. I think they do. Here's a previous thread. See the article posted on CNN about the study done.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/take-poll/157402-feelings-emotions.html

I think that we often apply our logic and humanize dogs. They do think differently. But I think it's short sighted to think that they don't feel emotions.

We know they feel fear. We know they feel happiness. We know they can display jealousy.

Guilt and shame are learned responses to actions. I do not think "guilt" is an emotion at all. Since dogs do not have constructed "societal norms" then it stands to reason they don't feel guilt or shame. What makes an American feel guilt/shame is not the same as someone in a different culture. But fear/love/happiness/jealousy are universal.
 
#14 ·
There will always be studies and more studies to prove that previous studies were in error.
As for love being universal in dogs, I'm on the fence about that. I like to believe that my previous dog loved me but I tend to think that my current dog (GSD) is more about trust than love. I.E.: once she doesn't think she can trust me then all bets are off. Whereas I think my previous dog (mutt) would have stuck by me no matter what.
JMHO
 
#16 ·
I always believed guilt is not in innate emotion in humans. In fact studies have shown that guilt is a taught emotion. We actually teach babies..guilt.. And so forth children..into adult hood

So for a dog... Mmnnnn... But do I think they know they did something wrong at times..yes...is it guilt ..mmnnn
Fear- I know I did something wrong..iam in trouble..... Yeah that one...

But... I only beleive this because of what I was taught in my psychology classes. Maybe my professors know not of what they speak about?

I had a dog once... I swear... She would do the same thing..home perfect condition..greets me at door ..tail wagging.. Dog greets me at door... Tail tucked..not happy to see me- house in shambles..

Xoxoxo
 
#19 ·
Avoidance based on fear because of a past incident.
When the owner acts "A", "B" happens shortly thereafter.

I gave this example before - some of our dogs were adopted as adults and thus, if anyone has a potty accident - anyone, not just them - the dogs scolded for potty accidents look just like that. Especially if I say "Oh no, who did this!?" Even if I say it in more of a happy/not scolding tone.

The one dog we raised from a puppy is lucky, we never rubbed her nose or swatted or scolded her. For one thing, her spine has some issues and she can't always control where she goes, or when, so why scold her!?

She is about the only one who doesn't freak out when there's potty on the floor.
The others have bad associations with potty in the house, so even if it isn't them, they start looking like that dog does. One could say they look "guilty".
Really, they are just afraid they'll get romped on because there's potty on the floor.
 
#20 ·
About the guilty expression that dogs sometimes have when they think they'll get in trouble... I was at one point unsure as to whether my gsd did in fact feel guilty as every time she stole food and there was evidence for it she would act very "sorry" ears back, lips pulled back, eyes sad and tail tucked.. until the other day! I got home and the cake that was accidentally left on the countertop was eaten with the plate and cling rap on the ground. My gsd did her usual guilty face so I made her vomit with epson salts (its common practice here in aus to use epson salts rather than peroxide, most vets freak out at the idea of hydrogen peroxide being used to induce vomiting here) anyway, low and behold.. no cake in her belly, I then made my foster kelpie cross pup vomit and out came what looked like the entire cake.. he had no guilty expression, was happy to see me doing his little happy "welcome home" dance, thats when I was reaffirmed that my gsd's guilty expression was in association to there being evidence. In her mind she knows that if mum sees wrappings or cutlery or dishes on the ground I am in big trouble.. not that I have ever yelled or gotten mad at her when she has stolen food, but she is sensitive enough to pick up my mood (mainly frustration and worry) when she does steal food and knows that it upsets me. While dogs live in the moment, the associations they make with events and environments are often made in "still frame" memories, so if the situation repeats under the same or similar settings, their previous encounter and response to the encounter can be repeated.
 
#21 ·
When I am sad or crying, Sinister get's very pushy with me. He will either give me his paw, lean against me or nudge me to touch him. Then he sits perfectly still while I hug his neck and cry into his fur. :wub:
 
#22 ·
I certainly think that dogs feel something akin to love. They grieve the loss of companions (human, canine, feline) strongly and for a long period of time in some cases.
 
#23 ·
I know with out a doubt...they have senses..they feel... They understand.

I was reading this thread again and flashed back to when my son was attacked by a dog... 80 sutures..we had just come home from the hospital not sure how a 4 year old would react to seeing dogs... Our dogs did not attack him. But we carried him into the house.
Went to put him down on the couch ...our dogs..it's like they knew..they knew... They both went over to him..

The golden retriever came over and gently laid her head on his stomach and the sheltie..leaped up on the couch which she never ever ever did. Laid right down beside him. Neither have I seen so calm in my life.

They knew we were all worried and sad and Liam their little buddy was hurt.

The more I think about it. Who are we to even know what a dog feels or knows... When we really think about it. I think now that I flash back in memories and experiences with all my past dogs. Each is so different ...I know this for sure..they know things...that's for sure.

Hugs
 
#24 ·
in Benny I have noticed him feeling what seems to be fear, jealousy, excitement,anger, attachment("love"), an "I am the boss emotion" with the other dogs in the family, lust, vigilance, grumpiness (When I was on a 3 day trip last month he basically stayed by the front door and grumbled when DH tried to get him to go to bed, ) impatience, joy, possesiveness, contentment.

I have never sensed him feeling guilt.
 
#25 ·
there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that dogs feel love.
 
#27 ·
There is a subtle difference between what I believe to be guilt and fear. When I have seen Jackson in fear his tail was not wagging. When I see him displaying what I believe to be guilt, he is displaying almost the same body language, crouched with his ears back BUT, he slowly creeps towards me and the tip of his tail wags! He also 'checks for pee' as my husband and I say. There's a difference he shows with his shamefullness and fear. It's quite funny when he's 'guilty', he cracks me up every time.
 
#28 ·
Jax wrote, "I think that we often apply our logic and humanize dogs. They do think differently. But I think it's short sighted to think that they don't feel emotions.

"We know they feel fear. We know they feel happiness. We know they can display jealousy.

"Guilt and shame are learned responses to actions. I do not think "guilt" is an emotion at all. Since dogs do not have constructed "societal norms" then it stands to reason they don't feel guilt or shame. What makes an American feel guilt/shame is not the same as someone in a different culture. But fear/love/happiness/jealousy are universal." (Re: #13.)

Maybe dogs do have constructed "societal norms".......I mean dogs have been hanging out with humans for thousands upon thousands of years....evolving for us by us. So, I wonder perhaps positively yes dogs do possess the ability to formulate a quasi-semi-sort-of-familiar social construction that's not yet fully finger-printed by expert PhD'ers who tell us all what to think about the inner-happenings of dogs........

If this is true.....that we know.... "....they feel fear. We know they feel happiness. We know they can display jealousy." Are not those emotes relative constructs too? For example, my younger brother, when he was in toddler-hood, was abjectly horrified of Santa, the Easter Bunny, Clowns, etc., he had to be TAUGHT to FEEL happiness toward these things! Years later, with my older sister's daughter, the same thing occurred during the toddler stage.....my niece HAD to be TAUGHT to feel HAPPINESS...how to feel LOVE....for things that are not even real.

Now, I know that comparing humans to dogs isn't right, the difference is too huge, but if dogs can't feel shame nor guilt because those are human constructs then neither can they feel empathy or altruism. Right? But I think some dogs can. Just like I think some people can; a dog's inner-process of the ability is in there......I just don't know how to prove it.

" What makes an American feel guilt/shame is not the same as someone in a different culture." This sentence says it all for me....inner-workings are a process which is relative to the individual even within a different culture. What this Eskimo might feel....could be totally opposite to what that Eskimo feels....and the European perhaps feels a whole 'nuther way. But dogs can't at all? I think for some, maybe they do....it's just as individual and not yet declared by the Dr. So-n-So Know-it-alls.
 
#30 ·
while at the wolf preserve in columbia nj, wolf expert described the social structure, and stated the pack feels loss a the death of or removal of a pack member. they display their emotional loss with wolf howls and specific behavior. articles in national geo also lean towards dogs feel emotion. i will leave it to others to speculate the emotions dogs feel. i am satisfied that they do feel and that is enough for me.
 
#31 ·
Dogs don't feel guilty in my estimation. I have had many people over the years mistake this in their dogs.

We do not know exactly how human emotions work regarding the interactions of different parts of the brain. Animals have different brains than ours. I am pretty darn sure animals have emotion in their lives. How they compare to human emotions, we do not know but I bet there are some very significant differences. Brain structure may really matter in these things.
 
#33 ·
Animals have emotions, though to what degree is up for questioning.

You cannot be taught to feel an emotion if your brain is incapable of feeling that emotion in the first place. Emotions are related to chemicals and reactions in the brain. So even if you're taught to associate an object or person with a specific emotion, you have to be able to feel that emotion in the first place. You can't teach a car how to fly just like you can't teach a person to feel emotions their brain is incapable of creating. Sociopaths are a prime example of this. Emotions are something that we learn to associate with external things despite the emotions themselves being very internal.

Guilt isn't as simple as people think it is. Guilt doesn't require you to have actually done anything wrong--you can feel guilty even if it's not your fault. Guilt is a subset of anxiety and thus fear. If a dog is acting guilty the dog is anxious/upset about something that has happened, whether they did it or not, because they realize you associate that thing happening with "bad". So yes, they are capable of it. I don't think they actively think about it being their fault, but it's merely a sign of fear. The actual emotion a dog is feeling is anxiety/fear.

One could argue that emotions are instinctual. As you think more and advance more emotions become more complex. So if you have instincts, you have at least some basic form of emotion, even if it's only fear/relief.
 
#34 ·
Guilt isn't as simple as people think it is. Guilt doesn't require you to have actually done anything wrong--you can feel guilty even if it's not your fault. Guilt is a subset of anxiety and thus fear. If a dog is acting guilty the dog is anxious/upset about something that has happened, whether they did it or not, because they realize you associate that thing happening with "bad". So yes, they are capable of it. I don't think they actively think about it being their fault, but it's merely a sign of fear. The actual emotion a dog is feeling is anxiety/fear.
.
That is the best description of guilt I've ever read.
 
#37 ·
Many folks think that a dog shows "Guilt" when you return home and the dog has gone in the house and it slinks around when you come home; but actually "proven" that the dog is really responding to your very negative body language. And if you punish the dog for going in the house it has no knowledge of what it did wrong. I would asssume if it doesn't know what it did wrong, probably doesn't feel guilty either?
 
#41 ·
Many folks think that a dog shows "Guilt" when you return home and the dog has gone in the house and it slinks around when you come home; but actually "proven" that the dog is really responding to your very negative body language. And if you punish the dog for going in the house it has no knowledge of what it did wrong. I would asssume if it doesn't know what it did wrong, probably doesn't feel guilty either?
My only problem with this is that how can the dog not know it did something wrong, when I can walk in in the happiest of moods and no knowledge of them having done anything wrong and they are already doing the "slinking " around. It has happened, I walk in have no idea something was chewed on or whatever and they are already acting funny. How can my body language show negativity when I am the one that doesnt have the knowledge yet of what the dog had done wrong.
 
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