Humanizing our dogs and asking them to share and play with non pack members?

[JulieBays]

It seems pretty stupid if you ask me. I am far from an expert. Heck, I am such a novice that Sasha looks at me like I'm stupid most of the time. However, I've been reading the threads. For instance, Dog Parks. What are we expecting from our dogs? Are they human children wanting to be altruistic and learn to play with others? Heck no. Dogs are pack animals! They want to play with their pack. How about sharing toys and food? Human children learn very early that this is a good thing. Dogs can't learn this. Not in the same way humans process it. It's not fair to dogs. They don't have the same frontal lobe development in their brains that humans have. You give them a toy, food or whatever, it's theirs. They don't understand sharing. Oh, they will give their pack member a gift but it's not the same as giving a NON pack member a gift. I hope I'm making sense. I am just sort of fed up with all of the aggression threads regarding dog parks and expecting our GSD's to be so altruistic and loving. They are not people! We are a different species! Sorry for the rant. I was an Anthropology graduate in college. It just pisses me off that people keep anthropomorphizing their dogs. I'm guilty too but come on people!!! Let's be clear about the differences.

[msvette2u]

Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say, but you said it very nicely

Dog parks are for humans, and especially those who are apartment dwellers.
Dogs would do so much better if people, instead of unleashing them to romp with "stranger" dogs, would just spend extra time training and exercising them on their own.

**BTW, it's not just dog parks that trip people up. It's almost all areas of dog ownership when people forget they are dogs and start to think they think like humans.

[Emoore]

I agree. It's against a dog's biology to ask an adult to be friendly and playful with other non-pack adults in a dog park setting.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by JulieBays

......They want to play with their pack. How about sharing toys and food? Human children learn very early that this is a good thing. Dogs can't learn this. Not in the same way humans process it. It's not fair to dogs. They don't have the same frontal lobe development in their brains that humans have. You give them a toy, food or whatever, it's theirs. They don't understand sharing. Oh, they will give their pack member a gift but it's not the same as giving a NON pack member a gift. I hope I'm making sense. I am just sort of fed up with all of the aggression threads regarding dog parks and expecting our GSD's to be so altruistic and loving. They are not people! We are a different species! Sorry for the rant. I was an Anthropology graduate in college. It just pisses me off that people keep anthropomorphizing their dogs. I'm guilty too but come on people!!! Let's be clear about the differences.

Only a fool brings food and toys into a dog park. Sure, there are too many fools. But that really isn't the point of the dog park, to "teach" dogs to "share" anything. At least it shouldn't be anyone's goal.!

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say, but you said it very nicely

Dog parks are for humans, and especially those who are apartment dwellers.
Dogs would do so much better if people, instead of unleashing them to romp with "stranger" dogs, would just spend extra time training and exercising them on their own.

**BTW, it's not just dog parks that trip people up. It's almost all areas of dog ownership when people forget they are dogs and start to think they think like humans.

I disagree, dog parks ARE meant for dogs, but the humans abuse it. I am not an apartment dweller; I have almost an acre for my dogs to run. We work out there, we run, play frisbee, etc... I do agree in that many do NOT spend the time training and working and simply go to the dogpark and let 'em loose to run it off. That's just stupid humans at work, there.

But I do place a strong precedence on ensuring my dog is socialized with dogs. I hear far, far too often how DA many GSD's are.... or any non-socialized dog for that matter, but GSD's do seem to have more issues with DA than many breeds. My dog is not pb GSD at all, but I just do not want this to ever be one of our issues. Therefore, we go to the dogpark here and there.

[selzer]

I think it might depend on the dog park, what turnover is like, and how often you go. I mean, if you have a couple of regular dogs and started when yours is a puppy and are there four or five times a week around the same three or four dogs, it might work.

I think that is more like a play date. I think play dates make more sense anyways. That way you have a dog someone else has a dog, and you introduce them and then keep coming back. I have taken Joy and Bear over to one of Joy's littermate's house a number of times. Several times with joy, a couple of times with Bear. But there is just the two dogs, and it works out just fine.

But hooking up with 10-20 totally strange dogs and having a free for all? That's nuts, totally. At least, I wouldn't. My dogs are dogs and they would be perfectly happy if all the other dogs in the world and all the other people in the world for that matter, were no more. They are perfectly happy with me, and wouldn't mind never seeing another person or dog.

[JulieBays]

Chelle,

I understand what you are saying but it's still not safe for non pack members. I suppose it could be if it was a big park or if the same dogs were always at the park (a psuedo pack) but it's not. You have seen the problems.

Okay, this is not another thread on Dog Parks. I probably shouldn't have even typed the word. For me, it's more about the dog's natural tendency and what is best for our GSD's. What is best for their development? For me the novice and after reading this forum over and over, it's this:

1. Have fun and love your pup.
2. Let them live in your pack (let them be with you as much as possible)
3. Be a leader and understand that they depend on you to be the brave one.
4. Help them become confident. (let them win at tug or just let training be so rewarding that they know they are good at their JOB)
5. Give them some freedom to grow. (this is the hardest)

Where in those 5 points is a dog park? Or for that matter the necessity that they need to play with outsiders? They can learn to be tolerant of other dogs but why ask them to actually play with outsiders? That has to be hard on them. I'm just trying to think like a dog. Why would you ask a dog to play with a stranger? A kid, I can understand but a dog? I can't get it. The poor dog...

[JulieBays]

One other thing that humans have that dogs don't. An intricate language. Dogs depend on signals that we, as humans, don't always understand. Humans on the other hand, are hard wired for words. At an early age (before the age of one) we already understand the grammar of our native language. We depend on it.

[woody]

I take my dogs to the dog park sometimes because its a nice place for them to run around & they enjoy having a friendly sniff of other dogs bums! I don't ever recall any dogs at the park being asked to share anything. I'm not sure what dog parks in America are like, the ones I've seen on telly just look like a wire fence in the middle of the suburbs. In NZ my dog park is about 1km long rolling grass land. May be a slightly different dynamic to what you guys experience.

[doggiedad]

dogs can do fine in a dog park. it's all about the training
and socializing. how do you know dogs don't need to
communicate with other dogs? wolves are pack animals
but they visit other packs. my dog shares his toys
and food and water bowls. when he was a pup i made sure
other dogs came to visit. you're speaking for dogs.
are you qualified to do that? we don't know what dogs think.
how do you determine what a dog thinks? i take my dog to a dog park.
where i live there's 1,700 acres of woods. there's a section in the woods
where people gather with their dogs. sometimes there's 25 dogs there
running around and havingfun. there's people there throwing sticks for their dogs, there's people there throwing toys they brought from
home for their dogs and there's no problems.

it's fun acting like your dog is human. with some dogs you can get away with it with others you can't. do you ever think about how our dogs view us?

Originally Posted by JulieBays

It seems pretty stupid if you ask me. I am far from an expert. Heck, I am such a novice that Sasha looks at me like I'm stupid most of the time. However, I've been reading the threads. For instance, Dog Parks. What are we expecting from our dogs? Are they human children wanting to be altruistic and learn to play with others? Heck no. Dogs are pack animals! They want to play with their pack. How about sharing toys and food? Human children learn very early that this is a good thing. Dogs can't learn this. Not in the same way humans process it. It's not fair to dogs. They don't have the same frontal lobe development in their brains that humans have. You give them a toy, food or whatever, it's theirs. They don't understand sharing. Oh, they will give their pack member a gift but it's not the same as giving a NON pack member a gift. I hope I'm making sense. I am just sort of fed up with all of the aggression threads regarding dog parks and expecting our GSD's to be so altruistic and loving. They are not people! We are a different species! Sorry for the rant. I was an Anthropology graduate in college. It just pisses me off that people keep anthropomorphizing their dogs. I'm guilty too but come on people!!! Let's be clear about the differences.

[ChancetheGSD]

I guess I'll be a "horrible" owner then. My dogs have playdates with friends dogs and Chances favorite place in the world was the dog park, especially James Island when I was in SC cause then he got to PLAY WITH OTHER DOGS -and- swim!! We even had a small park by the house that every Friday all us regulars got together for the dogs to play. If that makes me a lazy owner or something (Despite the fact I did a heck of a lot more manual exercising with Chance than many of you would ever think of doing with your own dogs) then so be it. He LOVED it! Eevee does NOT like the dog park, therefore I don't force it on her. She DOES like playdates though so we often have those with some of her "friends". Zoey could care less. She enjoyed the park when we went but doesn't have the excitement Chance had for it. Chances whole body would wag and he'd be sooo excited when we started pulling into the park. Not even a big juicy raw bleeding steak compared to the wonders of the dog park to him!

You'd probably have a heart attack if I got started on my dogs clothes!!!