Humanizing our dogs and asking them to share and play with non pack members?

[MustLoveGSDs]

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, one could very well argue that simply allowing your dog to step paw inside and sleep/live inside your home would qualify as anthropomorphizing. Dogs in the wild do not sleep on cushiony beds and there is no such thing as kibble growing on bushes. Dogs in the wild also don't get the luxury of having surgery or seeing the doggy dentist when something goes wrong.

Julie, you say it seems pretty stupid to ask dogs to share and play with non-pack members? Seeing as how the doggie daycare business is something like a 50 billion dollar industry and growing, I'd have to say your opinion is that of the minority. If you have a dog that is dog friendly and social, I see no issue with allowing them to play with other dogs. Social dogs thrive on play with their canine buddies I have a male Doberman and it is a well-documented fact in the Doberman world that there are same-sex aggression issues. My male is 22 months old and intact. I have read stories of some people's male Dobes wanting to kill any other male dog they catch in their sight. I think what has contributed to my male's great social skills with other dogs of all breeds and sizes was the fact that I was able to bring him to work with me(dog daycare) and help socialize him from a pup by allowing him to play with non-pack members.

[Liesje]

Honestly I think it's great that many if not most dogs seem to really enjoy dog parks and dog daycare. I don't have easy access to the former and can't afford/don't need the latter but for those that do, I think they are great options and great fun for dogs. I live in the city but am lucky to have a small yard (a "huge" one in this neighborhood) where my dogs can play with each other for hours but in many urban areas, dog parks are the only realistic option.

I just don't agree that a dog *should* enjoy these things or that it's any indication of how well socialized the dog is. When I get a new puppy I take it to work every day for the first two months so the pup is meeting new people and seeing something new *every* day. I do prioritize how a dog interacts with people and new environments/sense more than dogs but I do *not* allow reactivity or fixation on other dogs. I do the CGC with all my dogs, usually multiple times (Pan has his first test next week). I've never had any of my dogs get in a fight, either with each other or another dog. I've never had any issues with any of my dogs at the vet. Last time I was there with Nikon, a rude little dog charged over to him and started sniffing and licking at the infection on his foot that was very painful and Nikon just laid there still until I was done telling the owner it's not a good idea to let your dog charge up to a strange dog, much less an injured or sick dog at the vet's office. We also go to a friend's pool and have 3-4 intact dogs off leash at a time and everyone is playing with their own toy not bothering each other. Just because a dog is not a social butterfly does not mean there is something wrong with the dog or the dog is undersocialized. I am not really interested in how wild animals life in packs. GSDs are a very modern breed and according to the breed standard they are not social butterflies but are calm and neutral/aloof. I look for this in all of my GSDs and this is how I approach their socialization.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

There is so much generalizing going on in these dog park threads. Just because you think a dog park is a small fenced in area with bad owners, doesn't mean that is what all dog parks are. People like to roll all the parks into one imagine- they are not all the same! And just because you take your dog to a dog park doesn't mean you are forcing them to play with the other dogs. I take my dog to the park to swim (I live in Florida- he can't just swim in the lakes here because of alligators). He doesn't have much interest in playing with the other dogs. I take him for his benefit- swimming is the best exercise for him.

Very true! I envy people who have acres of land where they can play with their dogs right at home, but that's just not how it is when you live in a densely populated major metropolitan area with small fenced yards if you're lucky enough to have one at all. Anywhere it's safe and legal for my dogs to be off leash is public open space where anyone else can do the same, so exposure to other dogs is inevitable.

As Remo said, it depends on the dog and depends on the park. There are dogs that wouldn't do well at any kind of off leash park, and there are parks where I wouldn't take even my own "dog park" savvy dogs. I guess I find it odd that so many people think that the only reason to take a dog to a place where they can run and play off leash is so they can play with other dogs.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by chelle

Only a fool brings food and toys into a dog park.

Well, call me a fool! I bring food and toys to the park so I can play with my dogs, and sometimes I do some training too. The whole reason we're there is throw balls and other toys for them to chase and retrieve, in and out of water, so if I couldn't bring a toy there'd be no reason to go to the park. I have a Chuck-it, tennis balls, a couple of Orbee balls on a rope, a tug toy, sometimes a frisbee toy, and we used to bring a Jolly Ball, although we haven't in awhile.

[Liesje]

Debbie that park I've seen your pics of is amazing! We had ONE dog beach left (and I did take my dogs there since there usually weren't more than 6 dogs and mine would just play fetch with me) and last summer they said no more dogs

[LifeofRiley]

Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom

I guess I find it odd that so many people think that the only reason to take a dog to a place where they can run and play off leash is so they can play with other dogs.

I find this puzzling too.

[msvette2u]

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, one could very well argue that simply allowing your dog to step paw inside and sleep/live inside your home would qualify as anthropomorphizing. Dogs in the wild do not sleep on cushiony beds and there is no such thing as kibble growing on bushes. Dogs in the wild also don't get the luxury of having surgery or seeing the doggy dentist when something goes wrong.

Actually...if you were treating dogs like they would be living in the wild, dog parks would be all the rage and in fact, forget dog day care, drop them off at a well fenced area, and pick them up when you're done working.
Or don't own them at all.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Debbie that park I've seen your pics of is amazing!

We actually have three regular places we go to, I posted a couple pics of each place in the most recent dog park thread. And they are all great!

My local "dog parks": Personal Views on Dog Parks

[Wild Wolf]

Originally Posted by doggiedad

wolves are pack animals
but they visit other packs.

Very, very, very wrong. Sorry. Wolves are not social with non-pack members. They will attack and kill strange wolves that venture into their territory. They will not socialize with strange wolves unless they are ALONE, DISPERSED and looking to start a new pack on their own. I do not need to back up anything I am saying, because it has been proven and studied countless times and is available in books, videos and even clips on youtube.

I repeat - wolves are NOT social to non-pack wolves and will not "visit" other packs.

Because of my background in Animal Care and my lifelong dedication to the study and love of wolves, I am a firm believer in the idea that wolves and dogs are very similar. I strongly support the claim that dogs are pack animals, and asking them to share and play with strangers is against their psychology. I believe that through domestication they can water down their territorial and pack drives, but they will always be present - hence countless fights and disputes between strange dogs.

[msvette2u]

Interesting point you bring up...Temple Grandin, in "Animals make us Human" states that multiple dogs in a household is a very artificial way for them to live, that "in the wild" as people often refer to, they'd not have fences and what-not to constrain them, they'd be free to leave if one didn't like the other, etc.
We do this to dogs, when we bring more animals into our homes, and thus, force dogs to live with one another. Some do quite well but as we see over, and over, that's not always the case.