Let's talk about drive. . .

[Emoore]

On the "would you rather have a high-drive or laid back dog?" thread, I posted:

"A lot of people who think they have a high drive dog. . . don't"

To which PiedPiper replied:
"This really piqued my interest!!

So I'd love to hear from everyone....what, in your opinion, defines a high drive GSD? And also, what are the mistaken traits people who are defining their 'high drive' dog to be...when it really isn't?

(by the way...I'm almost 100% sure I DO have a high drive pup...but will wait to see your answers before determining!)

Thanks!!"

[Emoore]

To me this is an example of good ball drive:

It's 4pm in Dallas Texas and the current temp is 103. Kopper won't stop dropping his ball in my lap, so I took him out to play ball. I figured with the temp being what it is, he wouldn't want to stay out there long, but I was wrong. I threw the ball and threw the ball and threw the ball until my arm got tired and his tongue was hanging to his knees, but he wouldn't quit. Finally I figured I'd bring him back inside for his own good. He immediately went to the back door and started nosing at it with his ball in his mouth, telling me he wanted to go back out and play ball, even though I could tell he was hot and exhausted. He hadn't even taken a drink at this point, after playing ball in the glaring sun and 103 degree heat. Finally, I took his ball and put it away, and he got a HUGE drink and laid down.

To me this perfectly shows the difference between high drive (focused energy on a task) and high energy, which is just unfocused mayhem. When I put the ball away, he didn't whine, pace, chew the furniture, or anything else. All he wanted was to play ball, even through unbearable heat and thirst. I wouldn't say Kopper is insanely high drive, he's probably a 6.5 or a 7; but to me this is a beautiful example of the difference between drive and energy.

I'd love to hear some other answers to Piper's question. What, to you, constitutes drive and what differentiates it from energy? What makes people think they have a high drive dog when they don't?

I think a lot of people think they have a high drive dog because in reality they have a dog that has more energy than they do, or more energy than they have time for, or more exercise needs than they are willing/able to accommodate. So when their dog destroys the furniture or won't settle in the house, they tell themselves they have a high drive dog when in reality, they have a bored, un-stimulated, under-exercised dog.

[gagsd]

I thought I had a high drive dog when we got Kenju. He really liked to play ball.

Then I got a highdrive dog.... he broke collars and leashes if he saw a ball (and car doors if he saw protection work).

[Rerun]

Most people confuse energy with drive. I prefer a medium drive dog myself, and am quite happy to say that. But because black sable working lines are the latest fad and people come along hearing the word "drive," they think if they say their dog has high drive that it's a "cool" thing. Usually their dog isn't truely high drive. It's perhaps high energy (or normal energy for a GSD, but they being new to GSD's or previously having had a really lazy one think this one is crazy energetic) but not necessarily high drive.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by Emoore

To me this perfectly shows the difference between high drive (focused energy on a task) and high energy, which is just unfocused mayhem. When I put the ball away, he didn't whine, pace, chew the furniture, or anything else.

Luka is the same way. She lives and dies by the ball, or even the *idea* of a ball. But once the ball is put away, she's quiet and calm. I would call her a high drive but moderate energy dog. I think she would give herself a heart attack chasing the ball if I let her go as long as she wanted, but when there's nothing to incite her drive, she is laid back, usually flat on the floor.

I once had a dog that was hyperactive and I think she had the canine version of ADD. She would spin in circles, run from room to room for no apparent reason, just for the sake of running, I guess. You could take a long line and longe her like a horse, and even after intense exercise she was still hyperactive. Her ball drive was only moderate, as she was too easily distractable and could not truly focus for very long on anything (except a cat). I would call her a high energy dog, but not a high drive dog, though many people would see that energy and assume it to be drive.

Vinca is only 7 months old, so time will tell, but right now she is neither high drive nor hyperactive. Being a puppy, she is always noodling around playing with something, but her ball drive is only moderate--she'll chase the ball, but not with serious intensity that Luka has. Honestly, she seems to have more fun chasing Luka when Luka plays ball.

[Tbarrios333]

I would say Denali is not over the top in her ball drive. She has an awesome off button, but she will play until she drops.
However, I'm not 100% sure that a ball can be enough motivation to distract her from REALLY interesting things like a big strange dog. The ball may get her attention temporarily, but she's not one for flashy obedience.

The puppy on the other hand is WAY drivier (is that a word?). She will do ANYTHING and put up with whatever you throw at her for food. Shots, thermometer up her butt, big strange dogs near her, little dogs near her, kids near her, strange kids squeaking toys at her, stranger walking by her, new areas to work in. Nothing at all can remove her focus from a treat and/or training session. If I do lose her attention it's easy to get it back.
Now Buzz is definitely flashy with the OB. She is still in the process of developing an off button. I would classify her as highly driven, but will leave the judgement to the more experienced

[onyx'girl]

The dogs I see that are truly high drive are ones that seem to leak during obedience. They are foamy on the ball as well.
They are flashy, and ball monsters, but don't know how to chill, even when the owner platzes them with the relax command, they are still "on".
I'm not sure I'd want that type, but they are fun to watch!
Two of my dogs are a bit higher driven, they love to be active, but do know how to relax when asked. One word though will have them up and at it.

Reactivity in the crate or vehicle is a pain and most of the higher drive dogs I know are that type....you can't even walk by the vehicle without it rocking. Not saying reactivity equals drive, but most of the high drive dogs I know are lower threshold.
They are NOT black sables, by the way.....most of the black sables I see are pretty laid back, almost to the point of low drive.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

They are NOT black sables, by the way.....most of the black sables I see are pretty laid back, almost to the point of low drive.

I wasn't saying the black sables were higher drive...just saying they seem to be the latest fad...whereas before you hardly saw them outside the true working dog people. And those with a small amount of knowledge do a little reading, then get a dog that likes to play fetch (OP this isn't at all directed at you) and is active and suddenly they think they have a "high drive" dog.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I wasn't saying the black sables were higher drive...just saying they seem to be the latest fad...whereas before you hardly saw them outside the true working dog people.

My hyperactive, ADD dog was a black sable.

[GSD07]

Are we talking only about prey drive here?

Maybe, a little off, but I was wondering what drive is this: you play a ball, then end the game, throw the ball in some bush, then take the dog inside, or continue with a walk and other activities, etc. The second you return to the same place and release the dog, it can be even a few days later, he goes to search for the ball and brings it to you. Is it a hunt drive?