Do they really "want to please us"?

[codmaster]

I am curious as to what folks here think about that often repeated training fable, that is "My dog wants to please me".

I have become convinced from training my many dogs that dogs will do what they think will reward them.

What do you think?

[selzer]

Nah, I feed my dogs at night when I bring them in, and in the morning when I let them out. They do not have to sit or wait or speak or down for their food, that is theirs.

I train with threats through basic obedience and puppy classes, but before our next class, I have pretty much weaned them. My dogs get goodies, a neck bone or chicke quarter or pig ear, when they are crated for the night. They do not have to do anything special for it.

The work for the most part for the praise I give them. They want to hear me all happy with them. Cujo too, he gets all excited to do something.

I truly think that the dog wants to please me.

If you have not experienced the bond with a dog that really wants to please, I feel a bit sorry for you.

I know that the question was posed in such a way to make those of us who believe this to be too afraid to speak out. All that crap about a fable -- the question was posed with the proper answer inbedded. But I won't play that game though.

My dogs DO want to please me and are pretty good at it. I do not shower them with rewards, but I do praise them verbally and pet them.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by selzer

Nah, I feed my dogs at night when I bring them in, and in the morning when I let them out. They do not have to sit or wait or speak or down for their food, that is theirs.

I train with threats through basic obedience and puppy classes, but before our next class, I have pretty much weaned them. My dogs get goodies, a neck bone or chicke quarter or pig ear, when they are crated for the night. They do not have to do anything special for it.

The work for the most part for the praise I give them. They want to hear me all happy with them. Cujo too, he gets all excited to do something.

I truly think that the dog wants to please me.

If you have not experienced the bond with a dog that really wants to please, I feel a bit sorry for you.

I know that the question was posed in such a way to make those of us who believe this to be too afraid to speak out. All that crap about a fable -- the question was posed with the proper answer inbedded. But I won't play that game though. My dogs DO want to please me and are pretty good at it. I do not shower them with rewards, but I do praise them verbally and pet them.

Please, chill out, Selzer.

I wasn't trying to influence anyones answer - just very curious since so many people really do seem to believe that their dogs want to please them. And that is fine.

Could it be that they want to please their owner to achieve something that they think is very good for them? I.E. a treat, freedom to do something, a pet, etc. This is the debate that I was interested in.

Make people "too afraid to speak out" - I really do tend to doubt that judging from the many debates that we see here. (and that is a good thing - to hear different opinions concerning our dogs, isn't it?).

I do wonder exactly what "fable" were you referring to?

BTW, I believe that I have developed a "bond" with all of my dogs and trained many of them to a very good degree and had a couple of them put themselves at physical risk to intervene when I was threatened. Would you consider that a bond? I do.

[Greydusk]

I think some do, some don't. Many breeds are bred with that "willingness to please" attitude.

From the dogs perspective, I don't think that they're thinking "I'm going to sit because it'll make my owner happy", I think it's just kind of ingrained into their behavior.

[stealthq]

I think this is somewhat of a trick question.

I have no doubt that my old dog did things to please me. Barring the initial baiting him to show him what I wanted, I trained him using only praise and warning tones for corrections. That dog would go nuts with happy excitement whenever praised, and absolutely cringe if I so much as scowled at him.

However, that just means that my dog felt good when he made me praise him, and felt bad when he thought I was upset with him. So, he really was doing what he thought would reward him. Don't we all

[Dr89]

I understand what you're getting at and have wondered the same thing myself. I think it has much to do with what breed the dog is, as well as the individual.

Rambo is my 11 month old male GSD, and I don't think he literally wants to please me, and I have no problem with that. His obedience is great, he'll work for me even when I don't have treats, a ball, or a tug--but probably only because he knows we'll stand there all day until he does, plus he just likes direction--more so than he likes that I LIKE him to listen.

He's a dominant male and even when he knows what he SHOULD do, he won't unless I tell him too.

For example: for as long as I've had him (since 6 weeks) he has to sit before we go though the door inside. This is 4-5 times or more a day, every day, his whole life. He KNOWS that he has to sit, wait for me to unleash him, walk through the door, and THEN call him in...but if i just walk up and go in the door he'd rush right in past me.

He likes being led but if I'm not doing it then he'll immediately try to step up and get it done. I understand this and am fine with him working for me because I'm in charge, and not because he "wants to make me happy."

I also find it somewhat idealistic to think they just want to please you, but not totally.

I feel like a dog that always wanted to seriously please me would be insecure, like they were looking to me for approval all the time instead of being confident in what they're doing. Rambo wants me to tell him what to do because it makes him feel like he KNOWS what to do, not because I like it.

Maybe that was long winded but, just trying to get my point across.

[Achielles UD]

I do not think our dogs work "to please" us. With the exception of some "strange humans" lol, I believe all creatures with a central nervous system act to do what is beneficial to themselves. If that in turn "pleases" another being, I don't believe it was the original intent.

I have a great bond with my dogs, I think. They do things that make me happy which in turn causes something to happen they like (petting, praise, toy, food, free time, out of a crate, out the door, etc etc etc.). They do things I have taught them because it was initially rewarding for them to do so. Practicing "x" amount of times consistantly and the dog learning to associate the command with a behavior with a reward, eventually the reaction to the command becomes almost automatic/habit. At this point, the dog has had enough repetitions that they know there will be a reward of some kind for them once completed.

In general, I do things to make myself happy also. If it in turn makes my husband, kids or friends happy, great... but often I do them mostly to make myself happy (don't get me wrong, I like making family & friends happy, but in making them happy, I've also pleased myself because I like seeing them happy lol...). I believe that very rarely does a creature do somthing soley (sp?) to make someone or something else "happy."

This does not take away from the bond I have with my dogs or my relationship with family and friends. I think it makes it stronger. I look at it as a Happy Circle I ask for something, dog does it, I am happy, Dog is happy.. Dog asks for something (attention/toy/etc), I respond (command/attention/toy/etc), Dog is happy, I am happy....

A continuous happy circle! But my dog is not working to "please" me..

[Samba]

I think it is about pack drive. This seems core to the percieved desire to please in dogs. Very genetic. Dogs with this do not need much in way of reward to keep performing as a kind word and acknowledgement work well done.

I don't think you can create it in a dog. If they do not have it you will need to look for what the dog is willing to for.

[jocoyn]

Originally Posted by codmaster

I am curious as to what folks here think about that often repeated training fable, that is "My dog wants to please me".

I have become convinced from training my many dogs that dogs will do what they think will reward them.

What do you think?

I think it depends on the individual dog. I have a female that is the latter and a male that is the former. I prefer greatly having a dog that cares that I am more than a food ticket.

[JakodaCD OA]

this is the way I have always looked at , having german shepherds and aussies.

My aussies have always been "what's IN IT FOR ME?" where my gsd's seem to be "what can I do for YOU" (and if ya don't believe me, get an aussie

I tend to agree with Samba about pack drive. Masi for instance, isn't food motivated, more toy motivated, but doesn't seem to be looking for a "reward" in order to 'do' something..But then again, like Achielles said, being happy, a "good girl", a pat, IS a reward so they are acheiving something by doing something, even tho it may be a minute thing.