How did you decide? SL vs WL

[Liesje]

I've had a bit of a different experience. The two show line puppies I've had so far (and the show line puppies I know well through good friends) were all far more hyper, mouthy, and more work than my working line puppy and many of the other working line puppies I know. The SL often have a LOT of prey drive and that combined with less clear-headedness and often more nerve does manifest itself even at 8 weeks old. I know I'm not just "seeing things" because *everyone* I know (family and friends that are NOT dog/GSD/SchH people) has commented on how much more laid back and mellow that my working line puppy is compared to my show lines. It's not that he has less drive or less energy, but it is clear to me already that he is very clear-headed and has more of an on/off switch to his drives. He doesn't have neurotic prey drive. He is not mouthy at all, it's not even something I've had to really work on, he just doesn't do that stuff. He is very social, confident, and curious but he transitions between different environments very quickly (quiet in the crate, sleeping in the car, running around having fun outside, etc). He will actually do obedience in a high drive state for longer than my titled 2 year old, but he is overall more "settled" in the head. It's hard to explain but if you observed both my dogs you'd understand.

There's really no reason a working line puppy is "too much dog" especially compared to many show lines. The important thing is for a buyer to understand what type of dog they want and get THAT dog. If you want a sound, content, mellow puppy then don't get one that has high prey drive and a low threshold.

[onyx'girl]

I understand exactly what you are describing Lies, because my WL is the same way.
Funny how so many will describe WL as over the top energy and no off switch.
I think they are more "think before acting" if they are well bred.
And a dream to train because they are so biddable to their handler.

[Liesje]

LOL Jane, Pan reminds me of what I remember from Karlo when he was that age. Karlo was/is always very calm and collected.

[codmaster]

I would think that there is probably much more variation in drive and energy, etc. between individual dogs than one could see between "lines" - just like we would see great variations among individuals than between breeds. the advice to see individual puppies and to trust your breeder to meet your stated requirements is the best advice (if you trust your breeder and you shouldn't be buying a puppy from them if you don't).

Our US showline (big famous kennel) male GSD has a GREAT deal of energy along with a great prey drive and in the words of his behaviorist is "the most confident dog that she has ever seen" - he is a very "hard" dog also and handles corrections exceptionally well - hasn't backed up a step in his life I don't believe - yet he is from totally AKC show lines. Individual dog - as his two littermates that I have seen and met are not like him at all!

[Liesje]

There's always variation but overall I see more and more that the lines and types can fairly consistently fall into categories.

I think one problem is lumping together certain characteristics. For example, hyper does not mean drive. Not being able to settle does not mean intensity. Confidence in normal day to day situations and training might not translate into courage to push through pressure and real threat. There's all these dozens of drives and temperament traits, and THEN you have to also examine the dog's triggers and thresholds. For example, a dog with high defense drive and a low threshold acts quite different from a dog with high defense but a high threshold.

[Jason L]

Just another example of what Lies is talking about. Ike's drive is very big and he is also a bit wild on top of it. But he is not a go-go-go type dog. Energy wise he is just middle of the road. When he is done working/playing, he will just go and take a nap and you won't hear a peep out of him for 5-6 hours. Likewise, at home he is a pushover, a beta dog through and through and but put him on the field and he turns into something completely different.

[codmaster]

Just like different breeds - i.e. if you want a bird hunting retriever one wouldn't pick a GSD (most wouldn't - people here might!) but SOME GSD's would be great at it. Same token if you want a protection dog most wouldn't pick a Lab but i saw one once who was great at it.

If i want a Sch dog to train and show I wouldn't first look at US show lines or a BYB, but there are a lot of them doing it.

But if i wanted a seeing eye dog, I wouldn't want a Eur. WL dog as my first place to look either; or if I wanted just a pet for my kids probably wouldn't look there first either.

Just an opinion!

And then of course there are folks who know that their choice is best for all types of jobs of the GSD and everyone is welcome to their opinions!

[GSDElsa]

Third example of what Lies and Jason are talking about...

I was at a Christmas party this weekend where a dog who has been to WUSV lives. He was walking around the house giving air kisses to everyone and asking for butt rubs. Including a helper that has worked with him.

Sure is a crazy out of control WL SchH dog if you ask me.

[robinhuerta]

I don't have the same experience as Lies does with the show line dogs...
I DO have puppies with drives (for sure)..but I don't have puppies without an "on & off" switch...so I can't agree with your overall observation of the lines.
As a matter of fact, we gave a very close friend (who trains Police K9s), her "pick" of a litter. She wanted a male, and there were 2 to choose from. The 6mo male that she has goes everywhere with her including work (Police dept)...and attends the classes of PP & the K9s maintenance services. ALL the handlers & the trainers are very impressed by this young dogs confidence, temperament & calmness.
Although I have had dogs in the past of both WL & SL that were more "hectic" as others would put it.....they are not dogs that I would classify as a bloodline in general.
I can not live with ANY dog, that does not have the ability to "channel" their drives, and exhibit a "calm" character when needed.
Robin

[Emoore]

This is just my personal experience, but to me the difference has less to do with energy and calmness than it does the need to do a job.

The show/pet lines dogs that I've worked with were happy with exercise and basic obedience. The working ones really needed to have. . . . for lack of a better word, a higher purpose. Even if it was just bringing in the newspaper every morning and carrying things back and forth for me, they really needed to feel useful. They weren't happy just going for walks and chasing the ball.