How did you decide? SL vs WL

[holland]

-oops sorry it was four times at the WUSV

[Smithie86]

Originally Posted by holland

-oops sorry it was four times at the wusv

Holland....

[Verivus]

Wow, I never thought I would get so many thoughtful responses. Thanks everyone, it's a lot of food for thought. It's very interested reading about peoples personal experiences with the different lines and I agree that it really depends on the individual dog!

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by 24kgsd

EXACTLY Robin, well said!

And Lorie your boy Gavin pulled 592 pounds first try taking all of 2 seconds, and he was ready to do more. I had to "pull" him away from pulling more!

Wow! Now I know who's going to pull the hay cart through the snow next year. . I'd like to add Gavin is a showline with great drive, a zest for doing anything asked of him, is successful in the show ring, and loves being on the Schutzhund field, and is laid back enough to live in my home with 3 small dogs, 2 cats and horses, he can turn it on and off in a second, and Julie, I was
so impressed how the night you picked him up how calmy he walked into a busy hotel lobby and never flinched going into an elevator up several floors, he is just rock solid in temperament and confidence.

[Jessiewessie99]

Not only has this thread helped Vervius, but it has helped me as well. It does depend alot on your lifestyle, and the individual dog.

[Gwenhwyfair]

Holland, look at your post which I quoted. You referred to a comment I made earlier and therefore the reference was drawn to my post and yours...only. You didn't indicate any further inferences to WUSV in our exchange.

RELAX it's Christmas/Holidays and I hope you have a nice one.

Originally Posted by holland

Did you see anywhere in my post where I said I or my dogs have been to the WUSV three times-nope-nor did I say anywhere that I never ever made a mistake Let me simplify it for you my dog likes to play and I enjoy her-simple as that

[Jason L]

Originally Posted by Samba

I would work with Malinois, but I don't think it could replace a German Shepherd. My vision is getting worse every day, so soon I will be able to live with one of the Mali's!

Same here. My next working dog will most likely be a scrawny, sharped face little malinois ... and, yes, I do think they are ugly!

[Gwenhwyfair]

Understood re:show working crosses.

Thank you for your interesting and informative posts Liesje. Agree with your philosophy and in that dogs are like horses, the more different kinds/types you are exposed to the better. You will understand the differences and the better you become at reading them.

I think what happens sometimes on topics such as these is you have people flying at 3000 feet and those who are just taking off in the GSD world.

The opinions and experiences of others often can be overwhelming and confusing. Plus I've been on the other side of the fence with the horses (pun intended ) I've helped quite few newbies who were getting into horses. There are similiarities, you don't want match up a hot 17.2 hand Grand Prix Trakehner or young Thoroughbred colt with a someone who's just starting to learn how to ride. It's harder with dogs though, as there are more levels and more drives to worry about then with horses.

My advice to people who were starting out in horses was A) don't listen to everyone in the barn B) find a good trainer and stick with them. I found a lot people started coming to me for advice and training simply because I didn't try to force my opinions down their throat and it was such a relief for them. Training and learning have to be adaptive experiences. I've watched it many a time a gaggle of people who say don't do this, do that, NO don't do that as the poor new horse owner's eyes glazed over. I see that happening even more so with dogs because so many more people have dogs.

There's a lot of jargon that dog trainers use like 'edgey', 'handler soft', 'sharp' that someone just getting into all this may not really understand. Somethings are only learned through actual experience, dealing with many different dogs, seeing and 'feeling' the differences while training, observing and handling.

I think the most important thing is appreciate those people who are making an effort to do the right thing and be patient with them. <this is not directed at you liesje.....

Learning about GSDs at a more indepth level is new adventure for me. I hope it is as enjoyable as my 30 year journey with horses and horse people were.

Yesterday my little Ilda (import, west german show lines) met my neighbor's dog Diesel (import, working lines Czech) and they just fell in love... he is a very handsome boy you know It was so neat to watch them play and my neighbor and I were both just puffed up with pride lovin' both of those beautiful dogs. They didn't care, just full of life and joy, I think we humans could learn a thing or two from our dogs.

With that I wish you and the gang here a peaceful and joyful Christmas and Holiday season.

Originally Posted by Liesje

I'm in the category that likes to "mix it up" but not necessarily together. I don't look for show/working crosses but I like to own both types. I know that generally speaking there are certain lines better for tracking, certain lines better for defense/personal protection, certain lines better for herding, etc. The trick is for people to really understand WHAT it is THEY want, not what the "Schutzhund trainer" tells you or the supposed police K9 trainer or the person that is jumping ship to Malinois or this or that. One example I've seen is getting a dog that is neurotic with prey drive b/c they wanted a dog that looked flashy in obedience and is super easy to train with a toy and appeared to be great at protection b/c it would chase, bite, and tug a rag at a young age, but then wondering why the dog is a bit handler soft or doesn't have much fight in protection. I'm not saying you can't have good bits of everything but the problem is looking at one or a few traits and making assumptions about how the dog works in other phases/scenarios, what carries over, what doesn't. Take my showline dog, some of his "weaknesses" are things that I like about him and his style for work, and what I consider his "strengths" are traits that other people can't stand. But I know what I like in my dogs and THAT is what I get. No dog is perfect hence I have multiple dogs based on the traits that I like.

[W.Oliver]

Originally Posted by Jason L

My next working dog will most likely be a scrawny, sharped face little malinois ... and, yes, I do think they are ugly!

Get one of those KNPV dogs where they mix Mal x Dutch, some of them are anything but scrawny & sharp faced....

[mnbue]

We got our guy with no plans for him beyond wanting a family pet. He's an interesting mix of Canadian show lines (I'm no expert, but the Canadian lines are apparently similar to the American, but bred for less angulation), German show lines, German working lines and a bit of American show lines. As best I can do the math, he's mostly show line with about 1/3 working line just for "spice".

More by accident than any other reason, we've ended up in a Schutzhund class, and he's doing well - although he's certainly less "high drive" than many of the dogs there, he's taken well to the training where many of the owners are dealing with training problems brought on by difficult-to-control drive, barking, becoming too fixated to "think", etc. That being said, it's early days for us and we're still "drive building"...so we could be in for that too, if we're not careful.

All that being said, he's a great dog for lazy days around the house, too. We certainly need to keep him exercised (and can tell the difference when we're not doing a good job there), but he can lounge next to the cats all evening and not get antsy.

I definitely do see the point someone made about the mixing of show/working lines, and how this can lead to more uncertainty about what your puppy's going to grow up into. But I would think that's mostly true of first or possibly second-generation "mixes". My guy is actually from a breeder whose stock is mixed for a couple generations back, and I wonder....his dogs all seem to have a more relaxed temperament, but most of them are titled in something beyond just conformation (although that as well). Maybe that's a fluke, but I'd like to think he's on to something. I'm happy with our "middle of the road" quasi-working dog, and if I could, I'd go for exactly the same again.