Establishing Dominance

[doggiedad]

i've never rolled a dog and i've never followed the NILIF and i've never tried to dominate a dog. i think through training and feeding, petting and treating it all comes together. maybe some dogs you need to dominate. i haven't found that to be true with GSD's. it's only natural that you're the leader. you do everything for your dog. just think wouldn't you be happy if some one brought you your food twice a day, take you to the play ground (dog park), take you to the toy store (pet store), walks in the woods, you're driven everywhere while you sit in the back of the car (chauffer driven), you stand there while some one bathes you and dry's you off, you get your teeth brushed for you (you don't have to raise a paw to do it), you can sleep on the sofa, the bed, or on your dog bed, how much did i miss? now i bet you do all of the above things plus. now who's dominating who?

[lawhite]

i do not think it is about dominating, as much as making your relationship clear to your dog. Kali has some issues with other dogs, in part because I did not live up to my role when she was young, and she is of the mind that it is her job to deal with strange dogs. In our case it is not about me being the boss, as much as me being consistent so she can feel comfortable and relaxed. It is just this last little bit that we are trying to get down, as in all other ways we have a great companionship. I do agree that some people do thing naturally, and you may not even realize how consistent and clear your body language is to your dog(s). Unfortunately, some of us are not naturals and have to learn to be consistent and clear in our communication.

[Lauri & The Gang]

What makes a good boss? Is it someone that is a harsh task master, makes free use of disciplinary actions but never gives out Kudos or Attaboys, is the empathic type or the ‘Just get your work done’ type??

It all depends on the people the boss needs to boss!!

What makes a good Pack Leader? Someone who knows what each of their dogs NEED as far as leadership goes.

[Timber1]

You raised all the issues I wanted to post. We do so many things for our dogs and they know that. Beiong a so-called Alpha Leader is not a big deal. If we care for our dogs they know it immediately.

[Dohhhhh]

Originally Posted By: Timber1You raised all the issues I wanted to post. We do so many things for our dogs and they know that. Beiong a so-called Alpha Leader is not a big deal. If we care for our dogs they know it immediately.

This "doggie do as you please" mentality may be successful in a single dog household but have you tried it in a multi dog one? Don't you end up with alot of dog fights?

[lawhite]

OK I think this is somewhat a matter of semantics... at least for me it is. The words "dominance" and "alpha" bring to mind many of the things that positive dog trainers associate with compulsion type training. However, providing a consistent and strong presence to your dog (which some people would describe as "dominant" or "alpha") is also a big part of both our relationship with our dogs and our training with them. We all know that dogs read body language very well, and that being consistent (in our schedules and in our training) with them makes them more comfortable. I think that many of the things discussed in this thread are focused on how our body language indicates to our dog that we are "on the job" for them and ready to take care of them beyond the feeding. For some dogs this is a very important part of the relationship and it is at the core of many dog-aggression problems. (For example.. think of the person with the dog-aggressive dog that tenses up every time they see a dog and the role this plays in maintaining and feeding the dog-aggression issue). This may be very important for breeds like the german shepherd which (as Suzanne Clothier says) "take notes". I have started using her method with Kali which focuses on your relationship with your dog and building trust with them, and I have become more aware at how consistent/inconsistent I am with Kali on our walks. Since I have started being more "present" on our walks and paying attention to her and what we are doing, she is calming down quicker when she is put in a stressful situation, and in some cases she does not respond at all. So NILIF etc are all ways to help you build your relationship with your dog and give them a "job" to do. So for me it is not about being "dominant" as much as making sure I am being a consistent and predictable companion to my dogs so they can feel confident in me.

[Skye'sMom]

Great post Lorie. I haven't added my two cents because I was trying figure out how to word it. You did it much better than I would have.

I have trouble with the dominance/alpha verbiage. Sounds heavy handed to me. However, if I choose to say 'leadership' it can actually mean the same things and I feel better about it.

I am a positive style trainer. I use NILF and bits and peices of many other styles, except what I call strong arm styles.

I have always had a multi dog household (3 ) - no fights and all feed side by side, too. They know arguments are not allowed.

They have always been genorously rewarded by getting my time and attention - when it is their turn. They love to work with me and they know I don't like back talk.

Being a leader is all about consistency, fairness (and yes, dogs deserve for us to be fair) trust and fun. If you want to call it alpha, go for it.

We are just following different lanes to the same pasture.

BTW - I wish everyone would read Suzanne Clothier and Jan Fennell. Proof positive that you don't have to be the stongest to be the boss.

As has been said many times before, it boils down to attitude. Yes, it is being a leader first and foremost. What a leader is however is what muddies the issue. Being a leader is not throwing your weight around. Being a leader is having your followers have absolute faith in you. Respect for who you are is what counts. Not what you are. Terms like "alpha" and "pack leader" are okay for many and I will not gainsay those who use them. I guess for me I prefer the term caregiver best because ultimately that is what earns you respect. When you care so much for dogs (and people) that their trust in you is without question then you can lead - providing of course that you have the skills to do so. But having the skills to lead is coincidentally a major part of the ability to give proper care.

My dogs do as they should and obey the commands they are given not because they must do so either by stimulus or threat. Nor do they do so in hope of any reward other than my praise. They perform as they do simply because pleasing me is their greatest goal in life. Does this build upon being a pack leader? Of course it does, but it is not the sum and end all of the relationship.

[doggiedad]

here's what i mean by natural. establishing our place with our dogs is natural for all of us. we feed our dogs, we groom our dogs, we train our dogs. our dogs want for nothing. our dogs don't have to hunt, i don't think they worry about who's the leader nor do i think they want to challenge who's the leader. they don't need to. i think our dogs are happy in their place, why shouldn't they be? we do everything for our dogs. not a bad place to be. i strongly believe through feeding and training we establish who's who. i don't use the NILIF method, i lay on the floor and play with my dogs sometimes they're standing over me. my dogs have always listened. when we're out people are always saying how well trained my dogs are. i find having a Shepherd is a peice of cake. i think we read into it more than what's really going on. as far as body language i do what ever i want to do. i carry myself in any mannr i want and i do worry about what my dog is thinking. so far none of my dogs have had a problem with body language and if they did they didn't show it.

[big_dog7777]

And that works well with some dogs. Not others. Within the GSD breed there is a massive variance of temperament, especially in the United States. A GSD that can stare down a helper or the most dominant sheep is a dog that gets to hunt and is not inhibited and may not have a "you do everything for me, so kiss kiss I love you" mentality. Different dogs need different leadership, just like different dogs need different training methodology. I am not referring to compulsion or beating a dog into submission, but certain dogs do need strong fair leadership with clear cut rules while others need to be built up along the way.