want to understand and become a better pack leader

[SuzyE]

obviously you never had a dog like Paige. I have had three easy dogs-and then there's Paige. Paige was over the top dominant and w/o clamping down on her she would have bit someone by now. she was capable of killing someone. Be glad you never had to deal. Like I said-THREE other dogs, and I work with dogs all day long-not one even comes close to Paige. Thank God for my trainers who were nearly attacked by my dog but stuck with me and changed her in six weeks. they point blank told me "this is NOT going to be pretty."
kissing Paige's butt in the early yrs were a BIG BIG mistake, I wanted a sweet dog like my other three who took literally zero training and listened to everything I said. To this day Paige is a challenge-she is 10 yrs old. she needed cesar millan treatment from day one but I had a late start at age three.

[Catu]

Originally Posted By: doggiedadi've never worried pack leader. what's a dog need to be pack leader for? we do everything for our dogs. we bring them their food and water, we drive them around while they ride in the back of the car, we open and hold doors for them, we bathe them, etc.

we get a puppy. we socialize and train our dogs. we go to puppy class then OB class. through all of the things we do for our dogs everything falls in order.

i've never used NILIF. i give my dog hugs, treats, rubs whenever.
i step over my dog. if i need him to move he does. my is allowed on the bed and sofa. rarely does him get on them. when it comes to feeding our dog he normally eats first. it's easier for us to get up, take the dog out, bring him home, then feed him. my dog normally lays down in the hallway untill we call him into the kitchen when his food is ready. when we eat my dog doesn't crowd the table.

we bonded with our dog. dominance was never an issue. i think through socializing, training and feeding and giving your dog a lot of attention everything falls into order.

Probably beause you are a natural pack leader. Nilif and all that stuff is for people who need to start understanding the concept, who needs to be concentious of what they do or before they realize the pup is maing the rules. I've never used NILIF either in that way, I just live by the idea that I'm more important than my dog and even when I love her to pieces and can't move a foot out of the house without her and sleeps in my bed she is not a baby. I don't fo roll over, but I am physical if I have to be.

The day my dog get opposable thumbs, then we'll start talking of her rights.

[IliamnasQuest]

The main problem I have with Millan is that his methods are based on FORCE - and that force usually includes pain. That's why he uses a tight leash/collar directly behind the ears. That's a sensitive place on a dog, and with a choking-style collar you can produce a tremendous amount of pain for a dog. That allows him to do those "miraculous" handlings where he takes a scared, upset dog and suddenly has it walking quietly at his side. The dog is trying to avoid the pain. Because its wearing a chocking collar, the dog can't protest in any way as it can't even breathe.

And the flooding he's used is truly pathetic and, in my opinion, often abusive. I've seen him take dogs that were SO obviously fearful and drag them into situations where they were so frightened they simply shut down in fear. This doesn't fix anything! But to the uneducated, the dog is no longer fighting with him so it must be "working".

I pity the dogs that go through his show, and the dogs that live in his concrete jungle. He's a man that capitalizes on his ability to force dogs into submission, all the while flashing a sh*it-eating grin that mesmerizes the public.

I agree that dogs need more exercise than they typically get, and that dogs need to have proper leadership - these are things that have been said for decades before Millan came along.

People watch his show and try to emulate him, and the poor dogs suffer for it.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[SarainVT]

Wow, interesting debate on Cesar Millan. I happen to incorporate several training styles, depending on the dog. As a foster, I have different dogs coming in and out of my established and well balanced pack almost every month. I felt it important to be as well educated as possible, and to stay current on training methods. I am now in clicker training with my border collie/min pin mix. I had never done it before, and I will always prefer reward based training methods. I do feel NILIF can be valuable, and I also like to follow Turid Rugaas' calming signals, depending on the dog. However, while I may not incorporate every method Cesar uses, there are some really good things Cesar teaches owners. Your energy and commitment to exercise are very important. I have learned that "calm assertive," not excited dominant, is always the way to be when there is negative behavior. I also greatly admire his dedication to shelter and rescue dogs. Sorry, but there is no way in **** my clicker training center would ever take on some of the cases he does.

[norske]

It is very distressing to read of so many people praising some very outmoded modalities of training.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Here is a great article I found on Dog Star Daily: Leadership vs Dominance

Quote:Leadership is a grossly misunderstood concept. Leadership is often associated with words like “dominance”, “alpha”, “authority”, “respect”, and “challenge”. Rarely, if ever, is it associated with the word “trust”. Which may explain the tremendous lack of demonstrated leadership present in today’s human society!

Leadership is a role that requires the earning of trust from followers. Trust cannot be demanded. Force (the tool of the Dominator) creates resistance. Trust can only be given, not taken. Leadership, unlike "dominance", requires followers to CHOOSE to follow. Trust is broken in a heartbeat, but repaired, re-earned, only over a long period of time--not hours, but days, weeks, even months or years. Sometimes, it's irreparably broken.

An individual dog always has the right to choose whether to follow another dog or not. Even the most severe aggression will not force an individual dog to follow a leader it does not willingly choose to follow. It is only the benefit offered by the leader that encourages a follower to follow.

[Effie325]

Originally Posted By: norskeIt is very distressing to read of so many people praising some very outmoded modalities of training.

Definitely.

[HappyKewlGirl7]

You have shared some great links here that I know I will find very useful as I learn about my new Puppy. Thanks

[MaggieRoseLee]

Great video

YouTube - DOMINANCE DEBUNKED- The Myths & Realities of Training Dogs

YouTube - DOMINANCE DEBUNKED- The Myths & Realities of Training Dogs

[Brooke]

Great info thanks!!