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Caesar Milan video? Eye contact/disobeying

3K views 25 replies 5 participants last post by  BARBIElovesSAILOR 
#1 ·
Two things that I have question on that seemed to be key to him in training the owners. One, which is to keep the excitement level down and don't introduce him to another dog when his excitement level is too high, that I understand.

The other is when the owners were reunited both times after their pit had been away (at his dog training camp). For reintroduction back to the owners and the familiar yard, they were instructed not to make eye contact. Why?

My 9 mo old female GSD, in the last 2 mos seems to make constant eye contact with me. She has learned so much but has a long way to go. The one thing that's bothered me and I know now it's the most important thing, is when she's out in the yard and not an exercise time (just for potty). I will call her and she will stop whatever she's doing, lower her head and just stare at me.

I treat trained her to come in the house this winter. I chose that method as opposed to the long lead because well, it seemed to work and it was easier than being out in 12 degrees at 3am with a long line. Now, I'm concerned that she is simply choosing not to come and the dropping of her head and the stare is pretty much saying to me "no, I'm not gonna come, what are you gonna do about it"? If I product a treat from my pocket, now, half the time, she still doesn't budge.

Am I reading this correctly? Is this a start to something worse like aggression? Why does she drop her head and freeze? Sometimes, she will lift one paw (means unsure?) I know this is something I need to get on right away and make the major focus. Any incite or method you could share would be much appreciated. Thank you!
 
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#2 ·
cesar is all about the no eye contact or it will be a challenge to the dog....
your dog is probably staring at you when you call her in because she wants to engage you to come outside and play with her.
Has she shown aggressive behavior with you? I wouldn't read too much into it, but I would make her come in when you call her, regardless of how she acts. If she doesn't then it is time to take some steps back in the training and up the nilif. Make sure she gets praised everytime she makes the right choices.
Cesar's thinking is sometimes a bit over the top with dominating dogs and making them be so submissive. I hate seeing people think that tails tucked are a good thing when he's done with them.
 
#4 ·
Thanks! I've heard about the dominance thing with his training method before. It's very possible and most likely she just wants me out to play and explore. She has never shown even mild irritation when I'm training her. I have really stepped up the training the last 6 weeks or so because she has matured and can concentrate sooo much better. She is so receptive right now to training. She loves it. So, do I need to do the long line? I can't see any other way at this point though I was hoping to avoid it. Never had this problem with any of my other dogs in the last 40 years.
 
#6 ·
She's great around the house. A little pushy with her "wants" but now because of her age, I'm not afraid to put my "drill Sargent" hat on when needed and she responds quickly. She is quick to recover from any verbal correction and stays happy and light hearted.

Walks, working on. We got pretty trapped for winter. She needs lots of work. Got the prong and the Easy walk. We'll git'er'done.
 
#7 ·
Hate to admit it, but it might be a "girl thing". Now that you mentioned it, I have been down this "stubborn" path before with a Strat Bull Terrier female I owned back in the 70's.

Not to say female dogs are stubborn bitches. Maybe just a little smarter than boy dogs as far as taking advantage of opportunities:D:D
 
#9 ·
Lol, Chip18. Stonevintage, I'm a fan of the EasyWalk, but I do agree if you want to use a tool it's best to pick one and stick to it. Using multiples at the same time (unless I misunderstand?) just tends to set different criteria for the dog depending on which one you employ and can be confusing. It also splits your focus if you're trying to operate multiple tools.
 
#12 ·
Sometimes I think Cesar says don't look to not challenge a dog. Sometimes I think it is to avoid the dog getting too excited when the owners look at it, and reverting to rambunctious behavior.

I personally love the easy walk. Only, I love it for specific scenarios.

1. To walk my client's dogs. I have one lead on the harness, and have one on the collar, so they can not escape. Would hate to have a client's dog escape on me!

2. For walking my clients dog that is a "puller" but I am just being paid to board them and not to train. So I just do what I can so we can coexist and have peaceful walks without having to go through the whole process.

3. On captain because I can attach his doggy bags to it to carry.

4. On captain when I first got him, but wasn't prepared to teach him to walk by me yet, but needed to walk him for exercise.

Now captain still wears the easy walk from time to time, but not because he pulls. I have taught him to loose leash walk (a semi heel) on the easy walk harness, except I wasn't using the harness as part of the tool to teach him. I used my hand signals, voice, and touching. He walks wonderfully now, really learned fast. Except when he is really excited at the park and sees other dogs, we haven't gotten to that distraction yet, but I've only been training him on loose leash walking a handful of times so we need more practice. Even now when he gets excited, it just takes me a few seconds to redirect him then he calms down. So I think we will get to a perfect loose leash walk soon.
 
#14 ·
I thought the Sporn halter was like the Easy Walk too until this afternoon when I watched a few Youtube instructional videos. The Sporn fits directly under the dogs armpits. It has sheepskin sleeves to prevent chafing. The principal is a pain correction just like the choke,prong,electric or any other collar.

It's not like the Easy Walk that causes the dogs legs to cross over. Apparently, there are a group of nerves in the dogs armpits that causes discomfort when compressed. This is the principal the Sporn halter works on. It works like a prong with 2 d rings that contracts for corrections if needed. So, I think if I did use it down the road, that I would quit using it as soon as possible.
 
#13 ·
Makes big time education for me Pax. Thank you. I have to tell you, it would not have made much sense to me a couple of months ago, but now, I am getting her cooperation in most training and it is really making me want to get my part right as she is doing hers. Now to the part where I can consistently reinforce with her that obeying my commands on the leash are rewarding. She's so engaged with all the commotion and new stuff around her that "good girl" doesn't cut it. Hers will flick, but pretty much ignores after the first time or two.

She's a push over for treat training. She's a total toy fanatic. I could easily convert her from one to the other but the toy throws her into such a state of excitement, how is that useful on walks? How exactly do you reward with a toy on walks, let her carry it for a minute and then take it away? She's the type that would stop a first walk on the moon to play with a toy - nothing else exists to her when a toy is brought into our interaction.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Treat training is always fine by me for walks as long as you do a good job of fading the food reward when she gets the behavior down. I'm big on my classes about fading food rewards. High rates of reinforcement to start, then they convert to a random reward schedule as they get loose leash walking more than half the time. Once they can depend on the dog to loose leash walk 95% of the time in a certain situation, the food gets faded out completely and redirection cleans up the last of the issues while the big time food rewards are then reserved for a higher criteria like walking while there are big distractions.

If she's super toy motivated, you may have to clean up your toy interaction before using it for a walk. I had to do that with mine because he would want to jump, bark, and be crazy if there was the chance for a toy. For walks, I always suggest something you can keep a handle on (like a fleece tug or ball on a rope) so you don't have a tennis ball rolling away into a street and a dog trying to run after it. I started out play interaction at home and built a structure. My "yes" mark starts the play, we play, we "out" and then he must calm down and follow a simple command (a sit, down, focus, heel position, etc). The first few sessions took a while for him to calm down enough to focus on what I was asking. It was probably 8 minutes of standing there with my hand in the sit cue while he tried to calm down enough to do what he needed to do. But once he sat then it was "yes" and play. Then "out" and cue. Once he figured out he could turn play on by following cues, his focus was all on me and he calmed down faster and faster until my "yes" and "out" are like excitement on/off switches. We started off with easy stuff, then I started asking for more or harder behaviors.

When I was getting some good attention and more than one behavior, we moved on to leash walking. I'd start the walk and when he was in a good reward spot (my relative heel position) I'd "yes" mark and we'd stop and play. Then we'd "out" and continue the walk. If I needed to (if he was being jumpy or barky after outing instead of going into the walk with me), I'd stand still and wait for him to calm down before attempting to start the walk again. Once I could get him moving without circling in front of me, bumping me for the toy, or barking at me, I'd look for that relative position again, mark, stop and reward with play. After a few times, he makes the connection between the position and the reward. In my experience, once the dog starts seeking the position, the hardest part is done. After that, it's just building the length and duration of the behavior over time.

When I could get all the way down the block and reward at the end of my block, I started randomizing the reward schedule. Sometimes he would get it after two steps, sometimes after a block, sometimes after a half block. So the difficulty was not always getting harder and he didn't anticipate the reward only comes at the end of the distance we're working on.

-So reward structure first - mark has earned the reward and play starts, "out" or other cue like "enough" or "that's it" ends play, but leaves the opportunity to earn more play by following cues open.
-Learn relative position and work on teaching the dog to seek it out by rewarding dog's attempts to find it (swinging into your side, backing up into position, or moving from in front of or behind you into the side position you want the dog to be in).
-Work up length and duration of behavior.

So that's the basics of how I set up toy reward for loose leash walking.
 
#20 ·
I would also like to mention that the first time I trained to loose leash walk was AFTER I tired captain out playing fetch at the park. Now when I train him he doesn't necessarily need to be tired. It is just that if you want to train a dog to heel or loose leash walk, it is going to be a lot harder if they have been bored and cooped up in the house for days, and this is the first time you are taking them out in ages,MIT probably won't be as easy as it can be. Always set your dog up to succeed!
 
#21 ·
Got it Pax. I have the perfect toy. Ball on a 12"lead with a loop handle. This she sits and releases to me in the yard and I can have her sit/laydown, whatever when she is in the yard. I can, on walks just give it to her for "tugs" for a short time b4 having her "release" and I'll put it back in my left pocket (side I want her to heel on, I'm a lefty). I can store it in different places when she's walking, but she will only get the toy when she's on my left and not pulling. Then extend the reward time to convert her to verbal only. Starting tomorrow to get the backyard skills really firm with this toy, then - we shall conquer the world! You're awesome!
 
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