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Old 02-06-2015, 02:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default General training methods- your preference

I am sure there are similar posts out there but, I didn't see one that just generally speaks about this. If there already is one, moderators can remove it.

Last night I was watching Cesar Milan. He was showing how to use a shock collar, and the timing on when to use it. He then proceeded to make the dog lay down, and lay it on its side to show... I forget what haha. Maybe leadership or something.

After that, I was watching Victoria stillwell, where she spoke without mincing words about slip, prong, martingale, and shock collars. She said the only place these belong is in the trash. She said she could teach any dog in 10 minutes how to walk on a loose leash without using any of these devices.

My opinion: I don't agree 100% with all things Cesar does. Last night, Victoria did something for the first time that I disagreed with too.

There is such a juxtaposition in these training methods, and I am sure there are others as well. I just want to have an open and honest discussion.

What training methods do you prefer? Which well known dog trainers do you respect? What theories do you disagree with and why? And pretty much, let's just discuss anything that has to do with the training method controversy.
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Stilwell cant train a dog period. Show me one dog she has trained, or one serious behavioral problem she has effectively resolved. She is a loud mouth in a cute outfit with no actual skill to back up what she says.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't like either one of them. Both are extremes. I prefer a balanced approach. I teach my dog what I want him to know. When I know that he is certain of what he is supposed to be doing then I can proof it. I use all tools. Nylon choke, prong, e-collar, clicker, reinforcement, treats. Balanced and fair is the key.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't like either one of them. Both are extremes. I prefer a balanced approach. I teach my dog what I want him to know. When I know that he is certain of what he is supposed to be doing then I can proof it. I use all tools. Nylon choke, prong, e-collar, clicker, reinforcement, treats. Balanced and fair is the key.
agree. And neither one of them ever do engagement type training.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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agree. And neither one of them ever do engagement type training.
engagement ....engagement.....engagement.....engagement

If there is never another word to learn in training, learn this one.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I highly recommend reading the Koehler Method of Dog Training if you're interested in taking a glance at different training methods.

Even if you don't plan to use the exact methods discussed in the book, it really gives you good insight as far as why something like a choke collar can be used properly in a training medium. The "why" was truly the key part that I found helpful, or is at least what I found to be more revealing. It not only clarifies what exactly it's doing to your dog but tells you how to properly use it I wasn't able to finish my personal research on the Koehler Method to introduce it to my own GSD pup, but with my next pup I do plan on using it.

For Ursa, my current pup who is 10 months as of today (yay!), we ended up going with an e-collar based training method. Though it's totally not what one normally thinks of with that type of training. The e-collar is extremely light and sensitive in regards to the senstation it produces, and has a scale of 0 to 100 (0 being no feeling at all, 100 being a pretty decent buzz), in which more than half of the scale would be described as just a "feeling" but not actually being electrocuted or punished; basically a feeling of being touched or something of a similar pressure. This basically helps reinforce a command, or to break them from prioritizing the command over any distraction (that's where your dynamic levels come into play with the e-collar remote).


One thing I'll say though -- while I've found the Koehler Method Book to be a wealth of enlightenment for better understanding how to communicate with dogs in training, I certainly have hard times finding elaborate discussion on the method. I see plenty of mentions of it every so often but it really seems like with how successful it's been through time, that I would be hearing of trainers who boast that they use the (what I believe to be) trusted technique, or even find sites dedicated to it.

Sorry for the rambling!
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BARBIElovesSAILOR View Post
I am sure there are similar posts out there but, I didn't see one that just generally speaks about this. If there already is one, moderators can remove it.

Last night I was watching Cesar Milan. He was showing how to use a shock collar, and the timing on when to use it. He then proceeded to make the dog lay down, and lay it on its side to show... I forget what haha. Maybe leadership or something.

After that, I was watching Victoria stillwell, where she spoke without mincing words about slip, prong, martingale, and shock collars. She said the only place these belong is in the trash. She said she could teach any dog in 10 minutes how to walk on a loose leash without using any of these devices.

My opinion: I don't agree 100% with all things Cesar does. Last night, Victoria did something for the first time that I disagreed with too.

There is such a juxtaposition in these training methods, and I am sure there are others as well. I just want to have an open and honest discussion.

What training methods do you prefer? Which well known dog trainers do you respect? What theories do you disagree with and why? And pretty much, let's just discuss anything that has to do with the training method controversy.
Watched a lot of stillwell... I think she is completely clueless. Even in all positive methods, and her application of clicker training.

Again my point, in how establishing your 'dog training philosophy' and watching mutliple opinions on good work done, should always proceed jumping in bed with a professional dog trainer.

Stillwell has a huge following, and is training people to be 'professional dog trainers'... (Imagine the impact that has on terrible trainers you pay to give you rubbish advice)

The only trainer i was thinking of trusting for personal interaction wanted to charge me $750 for 1-3 months work... With twice a week sessions... In group Classes... And he kept missing my calls and appointments.. So even though he seemed knowledgeable.. How can I let go of money with somebody that seemed unreliable in business. He also wanted to charge me the 750, until my dog got his BH certs... (Which actually would not take that long in his opinion, because I had done a lot of groundwork..) and then had to pay another sum like $900 to start working IPO... He charged by the dog completing the cert... (I didnt know if he would just set up the test; so my dog would just pass, and then he would be 'done' with me. I wanted this as a lifelong hobby). Im not so big on certs. and formal competition.. Real protection etc. as I am just wanting to have fun with my dog.

The all-positives were pretty clueless. Most of their dogs, could do less than a dog I trained myself.

From what I understand people in the states have much more options in finding good trainers than I do in my country. You are lucky in that regard. But people still need to do their homework.

Last edited by Lykoz; 02-06-2015 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I tend to like Michael Ellis. For an internet video guru he seems to be the most balanced. Ceaser Milan can be summed up with the idea of Keep Calm and Let your dog know what you want of him. Exercise first, then discipline, then affection.

Victoria's ideas might work on a soft temperament dog, like my last little whippet mix rescue. Koehler Method worked well with my Ridgie mix many years ago. And then we have the Monks of New Skete. They tell you to get to know your dog and use a method that works best for them.

One thing our IPO trainer says is a problem with dog training now is that folks watch all kinds of different techniques on the internet and then they and the dogs get too confused.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I tend to like Michael Ellis. For an internet video guru he seems to be the most balanced. Ceaser Milan can be summed up with the idea of Keep Calm and Let your dog know what you want of him. Exercise first, then discipline, then affection.

Victoria's ideas might work on a soft temperament dog, like my last little whippet mix rescue. Koehler Method worked well with my Ridgie mix many years ago. And then we have the Monks of New Skete. They tell you to get to know your dog and use a method that works best for them.

One thing our IPO trainer says is a problem with dog training now is that folks watch all kinds of different techniques on the internet and then they and the dogs get too confused.
I agree with this post so much..

If you are going to watch internet videos.. Watch different opinions.. And then pick one system to follow.. Invest in that system... Dont be too all over the place. You can get ideas from other places... But try not to deviate from one system unless you see something that really makes sence that you could use and not confuse the dog.

Free videos are a taster.. You will have to invest financially in a system to follow it at some point.

Consistency with the dog and a clear message is so important.

Last edited by Lykoz; 02-06-2015 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Michael Ellis doesn't relate much with pet training people. I doubt many have ever heard of him. I hope he doesn't go the way of televised training like Cesar and Victoria, who try to 'fix'....quickly.
I think with sport people trying too many techniques and confusing the dog can be true. Consistency is key as long as it works. I've found that using many tools in the toolbox goes with the progression of training.
The trainer I go to seems to have his 'methods' and it tends to work fairly broadly for most dogs(IPO) from the showlines to the working lines. Though he begins it with young pups, so the foundation is done with his methods. Fixing may require different techniques.
This isn't behavioral fixing, but possibly chewy grips or stick shy issues. He can get many dogs over their issues and on to titling. Seldom are there failures if working with his methods.
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Last edited by onyx'girl; 02-06-2015 at 07:34 PM.
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