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Old 09-14-2014, 08:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Training questions

This will be my thread for training questions. I have issues every day


1. If a say 'sit' and the dog sits slow, crooked, too far out, etc. What do I say? Meaning, I know I don't reward for that but what do I mark with?
Is it a 'nope'? No mark at all? Just release and try again?


2. My dog recently learned down from a stand and it has been heavily rewarded so it became his default behavior. If he doesn't know what I want then he downs.
So sometimes I say 'sit' and he downs. I say 'nope', say 'sit' again, he downs again. Sometimes he will down 4 times before he sits.
What's going on? It's not that he's not trying, he def is, gives perfect quick downs.
What can be wrong and how do I fix it?


3. How do I know when my dog knows a command?


4. How do I teach him to find my left leg. I can't watch any Ivan's videos, keep getting errors

Last edited by lalachka; 09-14-2014 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Lalachka, I have the same problem with 'down' position (#2). Ruby will always select, on her on, the 'platz' command when she is unsure of what I'm asking. So...what has been working this week, is I never ask for 'platz.' When I practice positional commands it's only 'sitz' 'shtay' (stand) or 'bang' (playing dead). If we are doing heel work , it's 'sitz' only when I stop moving. In class we have been working on long down stays..... She is the queen of that one. 😃 not sure if that helps. I'm anxious to see others reply.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Lalachka, I have the same problem with 'down' position (#2). Ruby will always select, on her on, the 'platz' command when she is unsure of what I'm asking. So...what has been working this week, is I never ask for 'platz.' When I practice positional commands it's only 'sitz' 'shtay' (stand) or 'bang' (playing dead). If we are doing heel work , it's 'sitz' only when I stop moving. In class we have been working on long down stays..... She is the queen of that one. 😃 not sure if that helps. I'm anxious to see others reply.
Lol it was so hard for me to get the down from a stand (the fold back down ) that I'm afraid to let it go for even a few days lol

But even if I did - then this problem will crop up later with some other command that has been rewarded a lot.
I guess I'd like to understand why this happens and how to avoid it
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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One more. How do I teach a stand out of motion? Is it just walking then saying 'stop' as you stop short (and he does), then mark and treat?
That's what we've been doing and it's working ok though he doesn't freeze all the way, will take a step or two.
Eventually I'd love to get the beautiful stand out of motion that I see on vids where they stand in a nice position and it's instant.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is what "I" would do.

1. the dog is on leash, (work against a solid wall with the dog on your left side), walk, stop, sit, he's not going to sit crooked because the 'wall' is going to force a straight sit, if he's to slow, (your leash is in your left hand) you swing to the left push the butt down, quick sits, get rewarded , (in fact I use 'quick sit' as a command)

2. he's confused, he doesn't associate the behavior with the command, so he's throwing out behaviors he knows for a reward. Again, ONLEASH, if you say sit, and he downs, up with the leash, turn around do it again. don't throw out differing commands when teaching/proofing ONE thing.

3. you'll know he knows his commands when he does what you ask of him

4. Teach "place"..ONLEASH, hold it in your right hand, treats in the left or learn how to 'spit' treats, so he's watching your face, if he's in "place", he's rewarded GOOD DOG GOOD PLACE, out of place, he gets nothing..

I have found when my dogs start throwing out behaviors at me, they don't know 'what' I'm looking for, so they will go thru their whole basket of 'tricks' to hit the right one, either I'm not being clear in 'what' I want, or they don't understand what I'm asking because it's not 'proofed' / trained enough

I work on ONE thing, get it down solid and move on to something else, I don't say, throw different commands into a session unless I know that dog "knows" what I'm asking..Sometimes ONE thing will take week or more to really be solid..and I want solid when I teach something
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
This is what "I" would do.

1. the dog is on leash, (work against a solid wall with the dog on your left side), walk, stop, sit, he's not going to sit crooked because the 'wall' is going to force a straight sit, if he's to slow, (your leash is in your left hand) you swing to the left push the butt down, quick sits, get rewarded , (in fact I use 'quick sit' as a command)

2. he's confused, he doesn't associate the behavior with the command, so he's throwing out behaviors he knows for a reward. Again, ONLEASH, if you say sit, and he downs, up with the leash, turn around do it again. don't throw out differing commands when teaching/proofing ONE thing.

3. you'll know he knows his commands when he does what you ask of him

4. Teach "place"..ONLEASH, hold it in your right hand, treats in the left or learn how to 'spit' treats, so he's watching your face, if he's in "place", he's rewarded GOOD DOG GOOD PLACE, out of place, he gets nothing..

I have found when my dogs start throwing out behaviors at me, they don't know 'what' I'm looking for, so they will go thru their whole basket of 'tricks' to hit the right one, either I'm not being clear in 'what' I want, or they don't understand what I'm asking because it's not 'proofed' / trained enough

I work on ONE thing, get it down solid and move on to something else, I don't say, throw different commands into a session unless I know that dog "knows" what I'm asking..Sometimes ONE thing will take week or more to really be solid..and I want solid when I teach something
1. So no mark for the bad ones? Like the slow ones?

2. Yeah, I agree. So you mean I should do one command per session? I get diff things from diff people. Some say one thing per session, others say to mix it up because it's boring.

4. Place being by my leg? stupid question. How do I get him there?
Also, how do I get him there perfectly? I tried luring and sometimes he's too far out or crooked
Is there a technique for this?


And thank you very much!!!!!
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I inadvertently taught Lisl to stay not only from a sit or down, but also when going out for a retrieve and coming in from a recall.

F'rinstance, if she is going out for a retrieve I can call "STAY!" and she will stop and stay and wait for the next command. The same thing happens on the way back in from a recall. If she's on her way in, I can yell "STAY!" and she will stop and wait for the next command.

It wasn't supposed to happen this way but it did. She can stop on a dime no matter what direction she's headed in and stay there until the next command is given.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I inadvertently taught Lisl to stay not only from a sit or down, but also when going out for a retrieve and coming in from a recall.

F'rinstance, if she is going out for a retrieve I can call "STAY!" and she will stop and stay and wait for the next command. The same thing happens on the way back in from a recall. If she's on her way in, I can yell "STAY!" and she will stop and wait for the next command.

It wasn't supposed to happen this way but it did. She can stop on a dime no matter what direction she's headed in and stay there until the next command is given.
That's amazing. I'd love it. Do you know how you did it?
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, every time she moved when I was teaching her stay from a sit or down, I would tell her NO, and then physically place her in a sit or down and tell her again to STAY!, and then walk back some distance from her.

She's very smart and picked this up very quickly. She was staying with me out of sight for up to three minutes after two days. I didn't believe it myself so we did it for several more days in a row and she does indeed know what stay means.

She will stop and stay anywhere, anytime, with or without tempting distractions like SQUIRRELS!, other dogs, cats, you name it.

She will stop from a dead run out or back and stand like a statue waiting for the next command.

Lisl amazes me every time I teach her something new. We really click together.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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1. I don't mark bad sits/ behaviors, I ignore and try to repeat the scenerio for what I want.

2. You can do what you want, but I find if a dog doesn't know what your asking him to do, throwing a bunch of different things in the mix, makes it more confusing..My dogs become 'bored' when they "know" something, and I do NOT move on..I keep my sessions short, to the point, and do a few each day..working on the same command if I have to.If you think the dog is becoming bored, stop, give it a break and go back to it later. Teaching obedience CAN be boring, it's getting the dog to "want" to do it, and what that reward is at the end that will motivate them "to" do it.

4. Use the "wall"..have him stand next to it. YOU get in the position YOU want the dog in, and work it. You can use 'heel', place' whatever..The dogs right shoulder should be next to your left leg. that is a heel position..

All the gsd's I've had have not been 'cream puffs',,if said "masi come on over here', is a sweet sappy voice, she'd blow me off, when I give a command, I usually have to do with an authoratative voice and a voice that tells that dog, I MEAN WHAT I AM SAYING. I'm not saying my dogs were stubborn, they just need me to say it like I mean it..so voice inflection/tone, has alot to do with whether they are taking me seriously or like "HA, yeah whatever" ...

I have taught a walking down/stay, by first knowing the dog knows what down/stay is, walk, down/stay, then I throw something else into it, walk/down/stay, I TAKE A STEP,
I back up, release the dog and walk..work on that, then the next time (which maybe a couple days, I want it solid!), I'll take two steps, pause, back up continue..etc..I then get to the point, where I walk/down/stay, and "I" continue to walk, in a big circle, go back into that heel position, stop, release the dog (lets' go), walk with the dog..

Masi has been a pretty good obedience dog, of course I took classes with her, with a person who uses the koehler method, which many don't like, but purely / positive didn't do a thing for us, food was not amotivator for her, praise is..she loved those classes, go figure


.
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