German Shepherd Dog Forums

German Shepherd Dog Forums (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/)
-   Training Theory & Methods (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/)
-   -   Reinforce fear and stuff (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/467882-reinforce-fear-stuff.html)

lalachka 07-07-2014 09:19 AM

Reinforce fear and stuff
 
70 Attachment(s)
So, last night I was at the park and they were shooting fireworks so every time one went off i'd mark and treat. He didn't look scared but I wanted to go a step further and associate it with something positive.

So a trainer saw me do it and he said that I shouldn't, that this just rewards something unpleasant. I know that you can't reinforce fear but the way he explained it also makes sense. Confused now

He said, imagine there's a song that's associated with something bad in your life, so every time you hear it you will get an unpleasant feeling. So it's the same with fireworks, let's assume he's scared, you're rewarding that state of mind.

What did I do wrong? I shouldn't've marked? Just treated? Shouldn't've treated and just redirected?

robk 07-07-2014 09:22 AM

How about just ignore the fireworks? If your dog is not affected by them, why draw attention to them?

lalachka 07-07-2014 09:24 AM

70 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by robk (Post 5741602)
How about just ignore the fireworks? If your dog is not affected by them, why draw attention to them?


The fireworks are over lol, I'm just wondering about the concept. He shies away from loud buses and trucks so i'd like to understand what to do

Baillif 07-07-2014 09:24 AM

The trainer was in the wrong. There's nothing wrong with what you did. You didn't need to actually mark. Just treat as soon as there's a pop. The pop becomes a conditioned reinforcer.

lalachka 07-07-2014 09:26 AM

70 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif (Post 5741634)
The trainer was in the wrong. There's nothing wrong with what you did.


But what about his example? I read the reinforce fear article and it made sense but his example also made sense

JakodaCD OA 07-07-2014 09:28 AM

what I generally see with dogs that are fearful, say of fireworks, they stress, they aren't going to take a 'treat' at the time of stress, if he was taking those 'treats', than I wouldn't consider him 'stressed' or 'afraid'..but that's just my opinion

lalachka 07-07-2014 09:31 AM

70 Attachment(s)
He probably wasn't. I'm hoping he wasn't)))))
But now I'm curious about the concept of it. When giving food after something unpleasant happened (let's assume it was unpleasant) am I rewarding his feelings of unpleasantness?

Should I stop reading into my dog lol? I want to understand everything about him)))))

Baillif 07-07-2014 09:32 AM

What about you can't reinforce fear did you not get? Let me ask you a question. Let's say you're afraid of spiders. Every time you see a spider someone threw a hundred dollar bill at you. Chances are you're going to feel better about seeing spiders because getting 100 bucks alters your mood rather freaking quickly.

There's a whole system of training by Bart Bellon called nepopo where unpleasant feelings signal reward. Kind of disproves his theory.

Baillif 07-07-2014 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA (Post 5741666)
what I generally see with dogs that are fearful, say of fireworks, they stress, they aren't going to take a 'treat' at the time of stress, if he was taking those 'treats', than I wouldn't consider him 'stressed' or 'afraid'..but that's just my opinion

Plus this. If they eat then they're fine.

lalachka 07-07-2014 09:35 AM

70 Attachment(s)
There's another thread about this (nepopo). What a coincidence. I will read about this.

Yes, i'd like spiders after a while a little more)))))


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2