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-   -   marker training and corrections (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/459650-marker-training-corrections.html)

cltyus 06-12-2014 08:56 AM

marker training and corrections
 
Hey guys,I get my pup July 18 and have been studying training methods. I've seen lots of good things about marker training and how well it works for building the bond. One thing that stood out to me was there are no corrections with marker training, but I see some people say they do corrections with it. What kinda corrections do you give? And for what behaviors....or lack of behaviors?

Mesonoxian 06-12-2014 09:05 AM

I use corrections sparingly. I do have an "oops" marker that I use when my dog makes the wrong guess/choice when learning or training a behavior. Example: I tell my dog to stand, and she downs. "Oops" or "Uh-uh" and she tries again. She stands, "Good," "Yes!" or I click.

I recommend you search for Michael Ellis videos on YouTube, they're usually short, but I learned a TON just from those.

ETA - I know there are poeple on this board who have much more experience and knowledge than I do about marker training. I'm pretty new to it, and just use it for "fun" training with my middle aged fluffer-nut.

ETA again - I avoid corrections if I can, because my dog is super soft. (i.e. - referencing bad nerves, not her coat ;) )

Shade 06-12-2014 09:08 AM

I do both positive and negative markers with marker training. A good behaviour gets marked with a clicker or a positive verbal marker (good). A bad behaviour gets marked with a negative verbal marker (Ah!) and the reward is withheld, the dog is redirected or refocused and the chance is given again.

You can do marker training exclusively using positive only and only marking anything that you want to encourage, I pesonally like using both negative and positive because it paints a very clear picture for the dog as to what my expectations are.

cltyus 06-12-2014 09:18 AM

Ok, I was wondering if the verbal corrections were the only corrections people use.

lalachka 06-12-2014 09:20 AM

No, ME has a style that I like I lot. He uses markers to teach the dogs what he's looking for but once the dogs know the commands and don't comply he will physically correct. Also, correct for bad behavior and stuff.

That's what I do.


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DJEtzel 06-12-2014 09:37 AM

I use no reward markers a lot.

It's not necessarily a correction, but the dogs learn that it means they are NOT getting rewarded and they should try something else.

Example. I tell Patton to Platz. He half-downs. I wait about 5 seconds. He still isn't all the way into a down, so I say "Nope" and turn away, he'll follow and I reset. I mark with a yes or the clicker when he does it correct and I reward for that and release him.

Some people also use NRM (no reward marker) terms like "uh oh" or "try again" as well.

dpc134 06-12-2014 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalachka (Post 5632402)
No, ME has a style that I like I lot. He uses markers to teach the dogs what he's looking for but once the dogs know the commands and don't comply he will physically correct. Also, correct for bad behavior and stuff.

That's what I do.


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100% agree. I use the same method. Patience, consistency, positive reinforcement methods when teaching the behaviors. Once the dog fully understands and the dog makes a choice not to obey a known command, I use positive punishment. The type and degree of punishment is dependant on the age of the dog and the unwanted behavior.

Shade 06-12-2014 09:39 AM

For a puppy I keep it as positive as possible but a light scruff or time out is used if warranted.

As the dog gets older my expectations go higher and I do use a prong if warranted. Never harsh corrections, mostly himself correcting or a jingle on the leash to warn and remind him I mean business.


Any correction that is given should always be done with a clear head and never in anger. Also, the punishment should always match the offence. That's my opinion and while no one is perfect I try to always keep that in mind, GSD are very smart dogs and will give their respect when earned. At least that's what I've found with Delgado ;)

Liesje 06-12-2014 09:58 AM

You can use markers and corrections at the same time, you're just intermixing different quadrants of Operant Conditioning. With a puppy I use a lot of marker training and then I manipulate the environment so that the puppy is going to make the right choice and get the mark/reward each time. I do not use NRMs as much as others, my preference is always to set the dog up for success. My dogs have not had much luck learning brand new behaviors with a lot of NRMs. They are more handy later on once the dog has been consistently successful with the behavior.

With "Clicker Training" (using caps, meaning the training developed by Karen Pryor, et al) there are no corrections.

Lilie 06-12-2014 10:17 AM

I have a woman in my Agility class that is working a very highly driven Border Collie youngster. She uses the clicker as well as saying "Uh oh!" when the dog makes a wrong choice. She uses a very high, playful voice.

At first I thought she was going to grind into my brain. But watching her and the dog work is really cool. You can see the dog's brain going 100 miles an hour and she remains in communication with it the entire time they are in the field. She doesn't nag or beg. She simply marks the correct choice with a clicker and sometimes she'll say "Yes!" as well. Wrong choices are "Uh oh!".


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