Alright.. so after my last video I started using the toy as a reward vs treats. Not all the time, just more often. He has been doing awesome with it.
Now I will admit.. we're slow in the video.. IMO at least. we had been out there for some time before I remembered I wanted to video the session.. Soooo that would be the reason I am slow..
Oh an I really thought I was being much more lively than the last one... but after watching it again, apparently I am still a boring trainer. Lol. he had fun though, so I guess that's what matters. Let me know what y'all think.
Mistake #1.. I realized I asked if he wanted to "play" in the beginning.. which IMO eliminated it as a training session in his mind.. but we're working on it.
Also I apologize ahead of time if you can't hear things I say.. it was rather windy. Oh and yes, I told him to "go potty" I could tell he needed to go but wanted to bring me back the toy and didn't know what to do.. Lol. So yes.. that happened.
Have you tried a tug or ball on string? It keeps the dog close and engaged with you quicker than throwing a ball.
In the video the dog is eager and runs fast to get the ball but slowly trots back to you. The dog isn't as eager to get back. I'd try having another ball or toy behind your back and when he is running back, show him the other toy so that he runs back to you faster. Maybe it's just my personal choice but I don't like a dog slowly making his way back. Imo it shows a dog that isn't that eager to interact with you.
He's solid on his commands though. I like how you only have to say it once.
Thank you and I will have to do another video.. we had just done a bunch and I'll admit he was tired out already.. he's definitely eager to get back to me when we start out training.. that's usually how I tell hes getting tired.. the bolt to retrieve abd the meandering back. So part of the slowness is my fault since I knew he was a bit tired.
I havent thought of the tug.. only because he's not much of a tug dog.. he will every now and then but he lives to fetch. He'd get bored real quick.
The second toy idea is one I have thought of but I wasnt sure about it during training. I do that with play and it works out great... could I incorporate it in training?
If the dog is tired then that makes sense. An energized dog should try to bring the ball back and ram it into your stomach. Jogging backwards while clapping your hands is another trick to get the dog to come faster.
He does respond better to the toy. But my biggest critique would be to somehow manage to play without throwing the toy so much. There ends up being a lot of down time in between work.
I agree with boomer11. Maybe use a second toy, a ball on a string(to tug with). Something that will minimize the amount if time he is disengaged from you and something that brings him back to you quicker. Or not throw the toy as far. Plus, there is a lot of aus. A second toy will get him to drop the first without you telling him and take that pressure off.
My boy prefers tug to fetch. So we do some work, reward with a 5-10 seconds of tug, back to work, 5 seconds tug, yadda yadda. Your reward is taking longer than the excersise. Does that make sense? The reward should be quick focused play WITH you, then back to work.
Only other comment, make he sure he goes ALL THE WAY DOWN, before rewarding. He got rewarded for half downs a lot. I only catch it cause I get told all the time my boys butt is not on the ground. So make sure you get a full behavior before rewarding.
All that said, you are doing a great job. He is a lovely boy!!!! You guys are a great team!!!! It obvious you are putting in a lot of effort and its showing!!
I like the two toys idea, and the running/clapping. I have been working on engaging my nine month old more during training/playing. Right now I am working on building his drive.
Awesome.. thanks for the adcice guys! I will see what quick engagement I can come up with.
I will definitely make sure I get the full "down." you dont ever realize it until yoi watch yourself and go... umm.. wow.. haha. I love getting a second pair of eyes to look.. so thank you guys for watching it!
Just reward the return and the out sometimes. The dog fetches and what is the dogs reward for returning the cherished toy and outting? More work! So the dog returns the item slowly and honestly it's a testament to your relationship the dog returns it at all. A more possessive dog would run victory circles around you.
When I do retrieves you'll see I mark and reward outs often.
So when you play play. Don't make the same mistake as the clicker people. Click piece of food click piece of food. When they get rewarded give them a random amount of retrieves but almost always more than one.
Also ask for 2-3 behaviors then reward for a while till you get the dog more into it. Then you can start extending the number of behaviors you ask for before rewarding.
Also switch to an item you can hide on your person. One of the tricks to keeping them engaged is surprise rewards in places they'd never expect it outside of training. So for example I contact heel to my car when leaving work with my dog. While we are in the parking lot I yell yes and whip the toy he didn't know I had out and play with him for a bit and then we get in the car and leave. It is powerful stuff. Sessions are always started with hidden rewards.
Just reward the return and the out sometimes. The dog fetches and what is the dogs reward for returning the cherished toy and outting? More work! So the dog returns the item slowly and honestly it's a testament to your relationship the dog returns it at all. A more possessive dog would run victory circles around you.
When I do retrieves you'll see I mark and reward outs often.
So when you play play. Don't make the same mistake as the clicker people. Click piece of food click piece of food. When they get rewarded give them a random amount of retrieves but almost always more than one.
Also ask for 2-3 behaviors then reward for a while till you get the dog more into it. Then you can start extending the number of behaviors you ask for before rewarding.
Also switch to an item you can hide on your person. One of the tricks to keeping them engaged is surprise rewards in places they'd never expect it outside of training. So for example I contact heel to my car when leaving work with my dog. While we are in the parking lot I yell yes and whip the toy he didn't know I had out and play with him for a bit and then we get in the car and leave. It is powerful stuff. Sessions are always started with hidden rewards.
I was thinking about marking the "aus" but I wasn't sure.. thanks for the advice. I'll try with a new toy, I am looking online for a ball tug, he would really enjoy that, and it wouldbe easy to hide in my cargo pocket, since I do most of my training right after work in uniform..
So the testement is then, what that we have a strong relationship, or he respects me enough to bring it back?
Nice video My suggestion would be to swap the holey roller for a rubber frisbee. The reason I don't like fetch with the holey roller is because when the dog is giving it back, it's impossible not to have it get caught on their teeth. The frisbee can be spit right out at you. This is getting very picky, I know, lol! I've been called pedantic before, more than once... But I like my dog to know that handing me the object is a quick delivery, not a pseudo game of tug.
Ha.. completely agree with you, first time the holey ball has been used for training.. it's kinda hard to see but if you look at the top front of the shed in the video you can see a frisbee.... bad mom award! :crazy: I can't get it down and I have tried everything!! I don't have a ladder. LOL. So this weekend I am going to have to buy a new one.. sigh.
Nice video My suggestion would be to swap the holey roller for a rubber frisbee. The reason I don't like fetch with the holey roller is because when the dog is giving it back, it's impossible not to have it get caught on their teeth. The frisbee can be spit right out at you. This is getting very picky, I know, lol! I've been called pedantic before, more than once... But I like my dog to know that handing me the object is a quick delivery, not a pseudo game of tug.
My guess is if you continued to just do one retrieve and then increased the number of behaviors you asked for she would get even slower with the return or stop returning at all. So do keep in mind the return and outing are behaviors that should continue to be rewarded.
The games are something that like any tool often need to be built up. Part of the reason trainers love dogs with high prey drive is it needs far less build up as a tool before you start slapping rules and restrictions on the games which naturally make it less fun.
So when I start a dog I start building tools first. Engagement is primary focus so I use food drive with high value treats and a hungry dog. Play is done too and made fun and I get the dog super hooked into the toy before I ever start slapping rules on there to make games and then later asking for behaviors. Kind of like those old anti drug commercials from the 90s. First hit is free...
Whitney, Thanks for posting this. I am far too embarassed to post anything of myself at work. One thing I would note, and this is from a novice working with a good trainer and I have a possessive dog, but I notice that often when you take the toy from Titan, you get the toy and whip your arm back away. My trainer would say, I think, that in a way, you are winning the game and this could be demotivating to Titan or, in my case, my dog does not like coming back to me because he wants to win. So when I am outing the toy I am to keep it very still infront of him and return it quickly. I also let him win and possess the toy and trot around (on lead) before bringing him back in. Sometimes I let him hold the toy and just do those long stroking pets on his flank too. I guess I make a bigger deal of him winning.
Again, this from a novice who is trying hard to change the relationship with her dog. So take it for what it is worth. The other comments are helpful to me too so thank you.
Whitney, Thanks for posting this. I am far too embarassed to post anything of myself at work. One thing I would note, and this is from a novice working with a good trainer and I have a possessive dog, but I notice that often when you take the toy from Titan, you get the toy and whip your arm back away. My trainer would say, I think, that in a way, you are winning the game and this could be demotivating to Titan or, in my case, my dog does not like coming back to me because he wants to win. So when I am outing the toy I am to keep it very still infront of him and return it quickly. I also let him win and possess the toy and trot around (on lead) before bringing him back in. Sometimes I let him hold the toy and just do those long stroking pets on his flank too. I guess I make a bigger deal of him winning.
Again, this from a novice who is trying hard to change the relationship with her dog. So take it for what it is worth. The other comments are helpful to me too so thank you.
Welcome I have been afraid of posting videos too.. I am always afraid of people's negative critiques..
Thank you for giving the advice. I will def. try this possession thing. Lol.. I unknowingly did this the other day... I think at least. We were playing and at one point I just let him keep the toy while I ran around the yard and let him chase me... he kept the toy with him the whole time he was chasing me and seemed to have a great time.... hmm...
I know with ball possessive dogs (including mine) if I try to reach out and grab the ball he'll sometimes jerk his head away and not willing to give me the toy. If I just stand there and just hold my hands out he'll eagerly give up the toy.
It has been a recent training with him to "Aus" regardless if I'm holding on to it or not touching it at all. In the past he hasn't been so good with if I grab it while it's in his mouth.
While Titan isn't really POSSESSIVE with me.. in the sense of it's ever been an issue, he does have his moments.. Now, he will 90% of the time give up the toy freely, 5% he'll hold on to it for and extra second before dropping and 5% of the time he will down right be a butthead like if I touch it he will just tug and not drop.. I used to sound like an idiot "Drop it, drop it, AUS, Drop it!!" that was some time ago,, a couple years.. but soon learned to still to one command until he got it down, then switch if I wanted to teach another command for the same thing.
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