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Old 04-14-2014, 12:58 AM   #31 (permalink)
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never heard of this nor have i ever needed this.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:50 AM   #32 (permalink)
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When I was training Arwen, and that was a lifetime ago, the trainer wanted me to have her down for 30 minutes. And I was just to sit there and keep her in a down.

The first day, she did it without any problem at all. So I was surprised when the second day, she broke the stay. I over-reacted, and we had a pretty miserable half hour. The next day, I went and got the lead, and she went and hid in the bedroom. Then I had a Come to Jesus moment with myself, and through out everything I thought I knew about dog training, and based my approach on the fact that the dog wants to do what I want her to do. If she isn't doing it, I am not communicating what I want properly. My fault. And I started training totally differently.

We never again did that 30 minute down stay. This bitch took first place on her three tries in the obedience ring, which means she never broke a stay in the ring. She did a CGC without any preparation or classes at a show. Her first attempt at supervised separation, was when I put her in a down stay, handed her leash to some guy and went and hid behind a car at the show during the test. She never moved a muscle.

But not because we did that 30 minute thing, because I totally threw that out. I guess it may work for some dogs, for her it was totally counter-productive, though probably due to my own clumsy attempt and doing it.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
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When I was training Arwen, and that was a lifetime ago, the trainer wanted me to have her down for 30 minutes. And I was just to sit there and keep her in a down.

The first day, she did it without any problem at all. So I was surprised when the second day, she broke the stay. I over-reacted, and we had a pretty miserable half hour. The next day, I went and got the lead, and she went and hid in the bedroom. Then I had a Come to Jesus moment with myself, and through out everything I thought I knew about dog training, and based my approach on the fact that the dog wants to do what I want her to do. If she isn't doing it, I am not communicating what I want properly. My fault. And I started training totally differently.

We never again did that 30 minute down stay. This bitch took first place on her three tries in the obedience ring, which means she never broke a stay in the ring. She did a CGC without any preparation or classes at a show. Her first attempt at supervised separation, was when I put her in a down stay, handed her leash to some guy and went and hid behind a car at the show during the test. She never moved a muscle.

But not because we did that 30 minute thing, because I totally threw that out. I guess it may work for some dogs, for her it was totally counter-productive, though probably due to my own clumsy attempt and doing it.
Oh I think your 100% on the money with your view point. I'm learning, through Cruz, that no matter what dog you have, you have to take different approaches in training. Some dogs respond well to just your approval, others take treating or a ball for a reward and your personal approval just won't cut it with them. That's where the novice trainers are weeded out from the decent to good trainers. The novice.....me, are perplexed or hit walls when what you used on another dog fails to work with your current dog. A good trainer with experience knows the next step to take or can rattle through a number of techniques until they come across one that gets through to the dog.

I think in the end, a lot of training gets lost or stalled because of a break down in communication between handler and dog. Once that one vital bridge is severed or is incomplete, your in a situation like I am with Cruz. They start just doing whatever whenever they want and over time just stop listening or flat out ignore the handler until that gap is once again re-established.

I tried the for-mentioned with Cruz, and it seemed to work. I think the theory is sound, and it's worth trying if nothing else is working. But it's not the be all end all either. As in your case, what you mentioned or the way I take it is you put your dog into a down/stay and held them there. This other technique is used with a lead and you sit on the lead and you just act like the dog is not there. You don't talk to the dog or command the dog. You just give them a foot of lead and sit on the leash. The theory is that over time, the dog associates your setting down with them laying down. There is no commands involved. Well, there is, but it's not verbal, it's a command through your action.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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,OK I think I get it, never had a need to use that approach myself but I get it.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I've been trying this a few times a week with Fawn for 10 - 15 minutes. She seems to do fine with it but then again she's fine to lay around as long as I'm there with her so it's not surprising. We'll see how 30 minutes and beyond goes.

I don't cinch the tether so tight, I don't think the upward pressure on her neck for 10 minutes is necessary but I may eat my words later for not doing this exercise correctly.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
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This is something we do just as a part of life. I didn't know it was a technique.

In the evenings I sit on the front porch with the dogs on their leashes. Now when the GSD sees me sit in the rocker, he automatically lays down because he knows he's not going anywhere.

Inside is similar. When he sees me sit on the couch, he will get on his cot usually. Instead of a leash, I used the "Place" command here. Occasional he'll try to entice me with a toy.

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Old 04-28-2014, 02:00 PM   #37 (permalink)
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LOL, I have been doing this with Beau just to keep my sanity. Didn't know it was a method. If he is not in his place or on a down stay he is into something or another.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:53 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I started using this with mixed results until we decided to go down the e-collar path. I don't know if it's the training around the e-collar or he is reverting back to the "sit on the dog" method or a mixture of both, but now, when we're watching tv, he will lay down usually. This and the fact that he gets corrected now with the collar when he is doing something he shouldn't. We have not worked on the "place" command yet with the e-collar or down or sit or any of that yet. We just got started and have only worked the "off" and "come" commands. They, have been drilled into his head. So I don't know how much effect the sit on the dog method has to do with his good behavior in laying down now when we are sitting.
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Well not going to say it can't work but it certainly sounds crazy to me! Never say never but I can't imagine myself ever doing that?
Hey looks like I was wrong!

Had a chance to try it with a rescue Boxer at an adoption day event (fear of people issues) and I was amazed at the change in his demeanour!

It looked pretty much like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2WgOZUebnY
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Hey looks like I was wrong!

Had a chance to try it with a rescue Boxer at an adoption day event (fear of people issues) and I was amazed at the change in his demeanour!

It looked pretty much like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2WgOZUebnY
Cool.

I never got around to consistently using this. I went the e-collar route and once we learned our "place" command, all was good.

I'm glad it worked for you.
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