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HarleyTheGSD 01-24-2014 04:53 PM

Dog Training Question
 
This is a question my boyfriend wanted to ask the forum:
Do dogs tend to be more obedient with firm, aggressive training?

Dudes mom 01-24-2014 05:19 PM

Can you be more specific with what you mean by "firm, aggressive training"?

HarleyTheGSD 01-24-2014 05:29 PM

What he says: "As in aggressive voice."

Dudes mom 01-24-2014 05:37 PM

I would say that the majority of "pet" dogs (I have no experience with a working competition dog.) respond well when their owner is consistent, confident and fair.

David Winners 01-24-2014 05:55 PM

For a dog to be obedient in a command, it takes several things.

The dog must be shown the command.

The behavior needs to be generalized in a variety of situations.

The behavior must be practiced under increasing distraction and finally proofed with corrections (if necessary) under distraction

Until these things happen, all the aggressive voice commands in the world won't make any difference, except to possibly make the dog afraid of trying new things.

Any sound or signal can be used as a command. The only reason to raise your voice is so the dog can hear you or to get its attention if distracted. There is no need to say SIT in an aggressive tone.

DJEtzel 01-24-2014 06:21 PM

No.

Hence, hand signals.

SuperG 01-24-2014 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyTheGSD (Post 4898330)
This is a question my boyfriend wanted to ask the forum:
Do dogs tend to be more obedient with firm, aggressive training?


My opinion and experience suggests ...confidence is the name of the game.

If that entails firm, aggressive training then so be it. I have watched over the decades the differences in which our GSDs have responded, interacted and obeyed the two of us. We have only ever had one shepherd at a time so what I have witnessed over the decades has some validity to it..IMHO.

What I mean by confidence is, you fully EXPECT your dog to obey your instructions not HOPE she/he will heed your request. Once a dog is competent and has demonstrated the learned response to a command, it has shown you it gets it....no two ways about it. Hoping a dog responds to your wishes, once it knows what to do is almost destructive in a dog's education. I watch my wife "ask" our shepherd to do this or that and in the fashion that she asks, not only can I tell she is hoping but the dog knows it just as certainly. It's almost by "asking" you are now giving a dog a choice where none should exist.....hence it does not enhance the dog's performance. The confidence required cannot be faked as I truly believe a dog will see right through the charade.

I purposely have my wife feed the dog and ask my wife to run the pooch through some drills while the food bowl is on the floor awaiting. The dog will do anything and everything amazing well for her. The lesson to this is to show my wife that the dog completely understands every command flawlessly and that the dog is completely capable of executing the commands. So, I tell my wife....now that you see how easily the dog understands...EXPECT her to do this each and every time....there need be NO ASKING and HOPING. The confidence you have in your dog to comply to your instructions is contagious but if the human is lacking in confidence, it's a tall mountain to climb.

So, if firm and aggressive training is how one displays their true confidence then go for it. Dudes Mom said it spot on...."..... consistent, confident and fair."

One last important thought.....leadership and confidence go hand in hand. Give your dog what she/he craves... leadership....confident leadership.


SuperG

wyoung2153 01-24-2014 07:17 PM

As I have not trained MANY dogs, I can say IMO they are all different. Some respond to positive happy tones and others respond to the aggressive tone. My SAR training lead has this in his pack.. to his younger male, if being corrected, won't respond to him if he doesn't sound angry. To his older female, if he has any sign of aggression in his tone, she shuts down. She needs positive reinforcement not negative.

David Winners 01-24-2014 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyoung2153 (Post 4899378)
As I have not trained MANY dogs, I can say IMO they are all different. Some respond to positive happy tones and others respond to the aggressive tone. My SAR training lead has this in his pack.. to his younger male, if being corrected, won't respond to him if he doesn't sound angry. To his older female, if he has any sign of aggression in his tone, she shuts down. She needs positive reinforcement not negative.

Commands and corrections are 2 very different things IMO. A harder dog may take a stronger verbal correction than a softer dog. The command should be given in the same tone of voice regardless of the dog; clear and authoritative without emotion. Adding aggression to a command will confuse the dog. "What did I do wrong?"

HarleyTheGSD 01-24-2014 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Winners (Post 4898810)
For a dog to be obedient in a command, it takes several things.

The dog must be shown the command.

The behavior needs to be generalized in a variety of situations.

The behavior must be practiced under increasing distraction and finally proofed with corrections (if necessary) under distraction

Until these things happen, all the aggressive voice commands in the world won't make any difference, except to possibly make the dog afraid of trying new things.

Any sound or signal can be used as a command. The only reason to raise your voice is so the dog can hear you or to get its attention if distracted. There is no need to say SIT in an aggressive tone.

I agree. Thank's for the input.


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