dangerous tricks

Sawwahbear · 05-02-2013, 02:29 PM

I did a search and I was surprised that I couldn't find any information on dangerous tricks on this forum.

I just watched this video from a respected positive reinforcement trainer (this might relate to the tread posted earlier about AF vs Balanced)

The Human Ego vs Safety- Dog Tricks Training - YouTube

First, Do you agree with what she is saying, or do you think she is being over protective?

I would also like to know from the people that agree, what tricks are dangerous for German Shepherds to perform?

She mentions in the video that all breeds are different, and I know hips should be looked out for, but is this in all GSDs? or just ones that have OFA hips less then ideal? She also talks about the risks in agility and I know a lot of people on this forum do agility, so I would very much like some input on that as well.

Thanks everyone for checking this out.

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO · 05-02-2013, 02:43 PM

This lady is a bit extreme for me. I don't do agility to look cool, I do it because my dog loves it. He actually loves to compete- how do I know? He runs faster and gets so much more excited in a trial than he does in practice even though he gets less treats (since he's only getting them at the end of a run as opposed to practice where he gets them throughout a run).
I have actually been told by vets that he is in such good shape for his age because of agility.
Now, of course I'm not going to try something stupid like having him jump off a building into my arms (what was she talking about??), that is stupid and irresponsible. Maybe K9s, military working dogs, and SAR dogs need to learn that though, idk.
But I don't think agility is reckless and I, like most people, don't drill my dog at full height jumps, etc. We work for fun and as long as he has fun I'll keep doing it

AgileGSD · 05-02-2013, 07:28 PM

This is mostly...just silly LOL Seriously. She has a very alarmist attitude.

"A border collie can work sheep until they pass out...and die"

I think these Silvia Trkman's articles are a good answer to this:

Agility is good for the dogs I

Agility is good for the dogs II

Really dogs are made for running, leaping, jumping, chasing, tugging, twisting, etc, etc.

**Liesje** · 05-02-2013, 08:24 PM

People who are serious about various venues of dog sport and performance events always put safety first, especially those of us with such large dogs (GSDs). On my flyball team my dog has one of the best and most consistent box turns and it's also done safely. All the other dogs have had to miss practices or get pulled because they hurt this or that and my dog has never been injured. If we can't do something safely, we don't do it.

Anubis_Star · 05-02-2013, 08:43 PM

At this point we are "cross training" berlin in very simple obedience traits for schutzhund and french ring, because maybe he'll excel at one over the other. Or maybe we'll want to do both. Several GSD owners in my club told me they refuse to do ring because if the increased athletic portions. One wont even work her dogs on the jumps after 5 yrs of age.

My trainer says as long as Berlin is lean and in good physical shaoe it should be no problem. I havent talked to my orthopedic doctors about this but one of my er vets said not only should it be no problem, but studies show that dogs kept active in athletic sports are at decreased risk of injuries.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App

wildo · 05-02-2013, 09:17 PM

A few of my favorite dog friends commenting the same I would above! ^^

I hope this lady doesn't drive or ride in a car...

AngelaA6 · 05-02-2013, 09:22 PM

You would think exercising your dog (in moderation) would strengthen the muscles and joints. Over exerting your dog obviously will harm it as well as not taking in to consideration what the GSD breed is susceptible to like HD and all that fun stuff. But a responsible pet owner would also know the limitations their dog has. I think the video was a little overboard but being weary isn't a bad thing...just not that weary.

It's like this lady is like two seconds away from never letting her dog leave the house because it's "unsafe"...x.x' there's risks everywhere, that's just life.

Sawwahbear · 05-02-2013, 09:52 PM

So no one thinks that there are certain tricks that shouldn't be done by a German Shepherd that other breeds could do?

Do you think that what she was saying about her border collie not doing handstands anymore because of its long arms was being over board?

AngelaA6 · 05-02-2013, 10:02 PM

I don't think her not teaching her dog to not do handstands is going overboard as well as having her dog switch from a sit to a down and slamming the dogs elbows into the floor as overboard. I think that is taking into consideration that you could be hurting your dog...I think it's a balance though that we need. Not super long runs, super high jumps, doing stuff that is super high impact on the joints. But having your dog not do anything isn't good for your dog either...It's a balance we all need to perfect and the more we learn about our dogs the more we can fine tune what we need to give them physically.

I wouldn't train my GSD to vault off me... I think it would be too high of impact on his hips and elbows but I'd readily put him in agility. Like sports with humans you adjust to the physical needs of your dog and take steps to prevent your dog from harm.

I do though agree to an extent of what she saying like that vaulting and handstands are little extreme and serve no purpose other than for show. I mean watch Superfetch some of the things they teach their dogs on that show are just ridiculous.

I also don't know what tricks would be harmful to our dogs (new to the whole dog owning thing but have been around them all my life and taking care of them)...If anyone else can chime in about what could be potentially harmful to this breed that'd be great so I can steer clear of those tricks

Blanketback · 05-03-2013, 11:54 AM

I guess it depends on how critical I want to be, lol. She makes a good point about not endangering our dogs with crazy antics. But, at one point she says she won't play frisbee anymore. My puppy plays frisbee several times every day. I just make sure that he doesn't leap high up into the air and I use a "chewber" tug style, so it weighs more than a regular frisbee, so I can predict where it flies and the wind doesn't pick it up. It's just common sense, lol. My puppy pulled something racing around with his doggie buddies, but I'm not taking that away from him. I also believe that a more active dog is less prone to injury.

05-02-2013, 02:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO Knighted Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 2,865	This lady is a bit extreme for me. I don't do agility to look cool, I do it because my dog loves it. He actually loves to compete- how do I know? He runs faster and gets so much more excited in a trial than he does in practice even though he gets less treats (since he's only getting them at the end of a run as opposed to practice where he gets them throughout a run). I have actually been told by vets that he is in such good shape for his age because of agility. Now, of course I'm not going to try something stupid like having him jump off a building into my arms (what was she talking about??), that is stupid and irresponsible. Maybe K9s, military working dogs, and SAR dogs need to learn that though, idk. But I don't think agility is reckless and I, like most people, don't drill my dog at full height jumps, etc. We work for fun and as long as he has fun I'll keep doing it __________________ Mikko (USDAA) MAD, SAM, GM, RM, SJ, SS; (NADAC) EAC, EJC, TN-E, TG-E, WV-O, OCC, HP-O, VerO; (AKC) NAJ, CGC; NW1 - 7 year old GSD

05-02-2013, 08:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,258	People who are serious about various venues of dog sport and performance events always put safety first, especially those of us with such large dogs (GSDs). On my flyball team my dog has one of the best and most consistent box turns and it's also done safely. All the other dogs have had to miss practices or get pulled because they hurt this or that and my dog has never been injured. If we can't do something safely, we don't do it. __________________ Liesje & the K9s Nikon (GSD) U-CH SG Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 KKL T1 FO PA TF-III FDCh-S CL1-R UJJ U-CA HIT TT CGC Coke (All-American) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC, couch warmer extraordinaire Indy (All-American) Blue Horizon's Indigo Girl, flyball star in training Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD) U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop CL1-R CL1-F RA HIT TDI TT CGC vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

05-02-2013, 08:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
Anubis_Star Master Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 722	At this point we are "cross training" berlin in very simple obedience traits for schutzhund and french ring, because maybe he'll excel at one over the other. Or maybe we'll want to do both. Several GSD owners in my club told me they refuse to do ring because if the increased athletic portions. One wont even work her dogs on the jumps after 5 yrs of age. My trainer says as long as Berlin is lean and in good physical shaoe it should be no problem. I havent talked to my orthopedic doctors about this but one of my er vets said not only should it be no problem, but studies show that dogs kept active in athletic sports are at decreased risk of injuries. Sent from Petguide.com Free App __________________ ~Emergency Vet Tech Berlin vom Spartanville 1/13/13 Zeke 5/25/07 Luther 2008 - 7/23/12 "Take this trouble from me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." Max Von Stephanitz

05-02-2013, 09:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
wildo Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,115	A few of my favorite dog friends commenting the same I would above! ^^ I hope this lady doesn't drive or ride in a car... __________________ Willy Pimg - DOB: 2/06, CL3, CL2, CL1, UJJ, HIT, CGC High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training

05-02-2013, 07:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
AgileGSD Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,725	This is mostly...just silly LOL Seriously. She has a very alarmist attitude. "A border collie can work sheep until they pass out...and die" I think these Silvia Trkman's articles are a good answer to this: Agility is good for the dogs I Agility is good for the dogs II Really dogs are made for running, leaping, jumping, chasing, tugging, twisting, etc, etc.

05-02-2013, 09:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
AngelaA6 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Washington Posts: 391	You would think exercising your dog (in moderation) would strengthen the muscles and joints. Over exerting your dog obviously will harm it as well as not taking in to consideration what the GSD breed is susceptible to like HD and all that fun stuff. But a responsible pet owner would also know the limitations their dog has. I think the video was a little overboard but being weary isn't a bad thing...just not that weary. It's like this lady is like two seconds away from never letting her dog leave the house because it's "unsafe"...x.x' there's risks everywhere, that's just life.

05-02-2013, 09:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sawwahbear Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 62	So no one thinks that there are certain tricks that shouldn't be done by a German Shepherd that other breeds could do? Do you think that what she was saying about her border collie not doing handstands anymore because of its long arms was being over board?

05-02-2013, 10:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
AngelaA6 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Washington Posts: 391	I don't think her not teaching her dog to not do handstands is going overboard as well as having her dog switch from a sit to a down and slamming the dogs elbows into the floor as overboard. I think that is taking into consideration that you could be hurting your dog...I think it's a balance though that we need. Not super long runs, super high jumps, doing stuff that is super high impact on the joints. But having your dog not do anything isn't good for your dog either...It's a balance we all need to perfect and the more we learn about our dogs the more we can fine tune what we need to give them physically. I wouldn't train my GSD to vault off me... I think it would be too high of impact on his hips and elbows but I'd readily put him in agility. Like sports with humans you adjust to the physical needs of your dog and take steps to prevent your dog from harm. I do though agree to an extent of what she saying like that vaulting and handstands are little extreme and serve no purpose other than for show. I mean watch Superfetch some of the things they teach their dogs on that show are just ridiculous. I also don't know what tricks would be harmful to our dogs (new to the whole dog owning thing but have been around them all my life and taking care of them)...If anyone else can chime in about what could be potentially harmful to this breed that'd be great so I can steer clear of those tricks

05-03-2013, 11:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
Blanketback Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,375	I guess it depends on how critical I want to be, lol. She makes a good point about not endangering our dogs with crazy antics. But, at one point she says she won't play frisbee anymore. My puppy plays frisbee several times every day. I just make sure that he doesn't leap high up into the air and I use a "chewber" tug style, so it weighs more than a regular frisbee, so I can predict where it flies and the wind doesn't pick it up. It's just common sense, lol. My puppy pulled something racing around with his doggie buddies, but I'm not taking that away from him. I also believe that a more active dog is less prone to injury.

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