People who have a problem with prong/pinch
 

Sorry, this is long, but I need to vent.

I have a serious issue with ignorant people (TRAINERS) who have a problem with the prong/pinch collar. Okay, it's one thing if you prefer not to use it as a tool to train with, but to be rude about it is a whole 'nother thing...

Today, I took Berlin out to run errands with me, we went to 3 pet stores, one being the local dog speciality store, and then petco/petsmart. I had his prong collar on, because I really am trying to get him under control around other dogs/people. He gets WAAAY too excited, and being 70 pounds, well he's basically dragging me around. Nobody had a problem with him wearing the prong at the first two places, but then we went to Petsmart :smirk:

He has been going to basic classes there for a little bit, with one trainer. Obviously I know these trainers aren't the best, but thats not what was important. I wanted to get him to class to be around other puppies/dogs/people. It was useful in that sense. Plus, he learned alot of basic obedience commands.

Well a few months ago, I bought a prong there, because the breeder told me to so I could correct him around the cats. The manager saw me looking at them, and told the trainer, and they both came over and 'lectured' me and freaked out on me basically. Um, alright. Whatever, so I still bought the collar because my dog is not a soft dog and really needs a hard correction to learn right from wrong in SOME cases (cat chasing, jumping up on people to greet, and getting too excited around other dogs) Those three situations are the only thing I use it for so far. Well the trainer has been mentioning it since about how I really dont need it, I can work through all my problems with positive training (which, I may, but it will take years). I dont have years. Berlin is 70 pounds, he is BIG, and I am SMALL. Hence, why he wore his prong today, while we were out. Well the lady saw me, and came over to MAKE SURE he was wearing it, and when she saw he was, she gave me a dirty look and walked away.

Like seriously? It isnt HURTING HIM. If anything the constant pulling while wearing his normal nylon collar is doing MORE damage. How does she think I am going to get this pulling under control? There is no "Hey Berlin, WATCH ME!!" "GOOD BOY!" and distract him completely from ALL THE DOGS THERE. He doesnt care, he wants to play with other dogs. With the prong, he learns that a) pulling isnt acceptable, right away, and b) barking is also not acceptable, right away. Then he ignores the dog, and gets praised. What is so wrong with this????????? :mad: I dont like to be made to feel like im torturing my dog, cause IM NOT. I need to correct these behaviors NOW, not slowly. He cannot act this way in public, its embarrassing. He needs to learn its NOT ACCEPTABLE.

For everything else, he is rewarded with food, and clicker trained. But, I will not have my dog learn that pulling me around in public is okay, if he pulled me down and hurt me, or hurt another dog, is that acceptable?

And my dog doesnt have issues, I know this, but if I wait and train her way, he will learn this is acceptable because training her way will take forever!

Like Berlins breeder said, these dogs are tough - they can take a tough correction. Only rewarding him when hes doing something right isnt enough sometimes.

And, another thing I got lectured about, was how hes going to resent me because im hurting him, and he knows i'm hurting him, and all his behaviors will ONLY get worse, not better.

UGH! Needed to let this out because it really irritates me.

I feel the same... It bothers me that SO many people seem ignorant in regards to these collars even people like Victoria Stilwell are promoting them as torture devices. I agree that choke collars are dangerous but prongs are a lot safer then nylon collars even if you use them right.

We're not allowed to use them in my OB class I'm doing right now and it's frustrating because that means Ollie gets to pull all over the place and act like an idiot.

We're working on focus and positive training methods but I can't always stay at a distance, I have to take him for walks and to class and southern California is CROWDED(at least the part I live in) it's really hard to be somewhere far away from other people and dogs while we work on his barking at other dogs issue.

I use the prong to help me in less then ideal situations coupled with positive training.

Have you seen these?Secret Power

If I hadn't just bought an expensive sprenger prong(which btw are way better quality then the petco ones) from Leerburg I'd get one.

i've never had a dog that i needed to use a prong or pinch
collar on. i think a lot of people look forward to usuing a device
as opposed to using training.

I love the Secret Power prongs. Below is a pic of him wearing it.
My vet was very impressed when I told him that what he commented was a "fancy schmanzy" collar was a secret prong :D

Hans is young, and Czech line, and way stronger than I. I am petite and don't weigh all that much, and it would be seriously dangerous if I had him on a flat collar in certain situations. He could easily dislocate my shoulder, or break away.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...rn-hans21b.jpg

We have 3 secret power prong collars. Before we used pet store prongs and we are lucky Ranger recalled when his came apart during a walk, with a car coming from each direction in the intersection DW was approaching. She came home scared that she almost lost him. We ordered the first one and liked it. Since we regularly walk all 3 dogs together we ordered 2 more.

Not everyone is exactly like you or your dog.
So you can't really say what people can or can't "look forward to."

You can use the Sprenger links inside the Secret Power collar.
I think Kaye might adjust the price if you just ordered the cover.

Just do what you need to do and ignore other people. It's your dog and it's your right to train it as long as there's no abuse

I've been surprised that I haven't had anyone say or look funny at me when he's wearing his prong. I'm in the same boat where I'm barely 5' and it's more for IF he wants to misbehave I have the ability to stop it

Katie, I wonder how the managers at Petsmart would feel, knowing the trainers"They" hire are knocking a collar petsmart sells?

It's like working for a chevy dealer and telling people NOT to buy a chevy? (only comparison I could come up with quickly LOL)

Exactly.

People think everyone's situation is identical to theirs, and that what works for them and their dog would work for everyone.

This is like parenting.

Everyone's situation, and mileage, varies.