There are no such thing as drives in dogs

hunterisgreat · 02-07-2013, 09:20 AM

Interesting article I just came across. What are your thoughts? It claims psychologists and animal behaviorists threw the concept of drives out the window 40 years ago... anyone in those fields able to explain how they "deal with" the discussion of behavior if now through the construct of "drives".

http://www.animalbehaviorassociates....e_troubles.pdf

Keep in mind, these are not *my* statements or beliefs, I'm remaining a neutral party, so spare any "you don't know nothing kid" replies lol.

onyx'girl · 02-07-2013, 09:22 AM

They should have linked the studies they were writing about...it is just another opinion otherwise.

"Drive traits are often used to make predictions about the later behavior of dogs.
Some puppy tests and adult temperament tests are used to identify certain drive traits and
then to predict the abilities and future performance of the dogs. None of these tests has
ever been shown to identify these traits and to predict future behavior. In fact, at least
two studies have found that puppy tests do not predict later behavior of adult dogs"

Tom888 · 02-07-2013, 09:43 AM

I think there are underlying instincts of different strengths. Through learning (or in case of dogs, training) some of these might be suppressed and others promoted, different instincts to different extent. I always use and understand the word drive as a loose definition of this set of characteristics, or a subset of them. Having all these concepts (e.g. the concept of instincts) I don't think that there should be a distinct definition to which the word drive refers and I don't think that anyone would question the existence of instincts. Therefore the problem is logically non-existent for me.

Marnie · 02-07-2013, 09:51 AM

I hate papers that say "some studies show" or "tests show" without siting the study or test. However, I agree with this author. I used to think there was something to the puppy test theories, but I've seen way too many of those tests turn out completely backward. I think temperament and traits are fluid and can be shaped and changed. That is not to say that selective breeding for certain traits is not effective.

carmspack · 02-07-2013, 10:37 AM

boy, that was a poorly written piece .

**lhczth** · 02-07-2013, 01:59 PM

Carmen, I agree.

N Smith · 02-07-2013, 02:26 PM

I think someone who actually knew how to correctly identify drives should have written the piece....I agree with Carmen and Lisa, very poorly written.

**jocoyn** · 02-07-2013, 03:36 PM

Yet these same folks don't know WHY some dogs like to chase more than others....

http://www.animalbehaviorassociates....aggression.pdf

Why on earth may that be?

Jag · 02-09-2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmspack

boy, that was a poorly written piece .

That was my first thought! It read like a high school student wrote it!

RocketDog · 02-10-2013, 01:21 AM

Actually, my highschooler who is 17 right now could write something better than that.

02-07-2013, 09:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
hunterisgreat Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,383	There are no such thing as drives in dogs Interesting article I just came across. What are your thoughts? It claims psychologists and animal behaviorists threw the concept of drives out the window 40 years ago... anyone in those fields able to explain how they "deal with" the discussion of behavior if now through the construct of "drives". http://www.animalbehaviorassociates....e_troubles.pdf Keep in mind, these are not my statements or beliefs, I'm remaining a neutral party, so spare any "you don't know nothing kid" replies lol. __________________ Hunter, USA trial helper, Charleston Working Dog Club Training Helper Beschützer des Jägers v. Sportwaffen, HOT, IPO1, AD, CGC Katya v. Hügelblick, HOT, IPO2, CGC SG Aska v. Ketscher Wald, 2 x SchH3, Kkl 1

02-07-2013, 09:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 21,189	They should have linked the studies they were writing about...it is just another opinion otherwise. "Drive traits are often used to make predictions about the later behavior of dogs. Some puppy tests and adult temperament tests are used to identify certain drive traits and then to predict the abilities and future performance of the dogs. None of these tests has ever been shown to identify these traits and to predict future behavior. In fact, at least two studies have found that puppy tests do not predict later behavior of adult dogs" __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

02-07-2013, 09:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Marnie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 466	I hate papers that say "some studies show" or "tests show" without siting the study or test. However, I agree with this author. I used to think there was something to the puppy test theories, but I've seen way too many of those tests turn out completely backward. I think temperament and traits are fluid and can be shaped and changed. That is not to say that selective breeding for certain traits is not effective. Last edited by Marnie; 02-07-2013 at 09:55 AM.

02-07-2013, 10:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,537	boy, that was a poorly written piece . __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

02-07-2013, 01:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
lhczth Administrator & LOTR Addict Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 13,724	Carmen, I agree. __________________ Lisa Clark Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs *South Michigan SchH and Police Club*

02-07-2013, 09:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tom888 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 60	I think there are underlying instincts of different strengths. Through learning (or in case of dogs, training) some of these might be suppressed and others promoted, different instincts to different extent. I always use and understand the word drive as a loose definition of this set of characteristics, or a subset of them. Having all these concepts (e.g. the concept of instincts) I don't think that there should be a distinct definition to which the word drive refers and I don't think that anyone would question the existence of instincts. Therefore the problem is logically non-existent for me.

02-07-2013, 02:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
N Smith Master Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Posts: 535	I think someone who actually knew how to correctly identify drives should have written the piece....I agree with Carmen and Lisa, very poorly written.

02-07-2013, 03:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
jocoyn Zombie Queen Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 11,846	Yet these same folks don't know WHY some dogs like to chase more than others.... http://www.animalbehaviorassociates....aggression.pdf Why on earth may that be? __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

02-10-2013, 01:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
RocketDog Knighted Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,295	Actually, my highschooler who is 17 right now could write something better than that. __________________ ~Elrond's Rocket of Rivendell, aka The RocketDog 06/15/11 hiker and runner extraordinaire http://redheadsrocketsandramblings.blogspot.com/

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