Not sure about my trainer

[qbchottu]

Outdated and antiquated techniques. This person needs to get with the times and learn the newer techniques before resorting to the yank/crank and alpha roll techniques that people used before they knew better. If a trainer or anyone makes you feel uncomfortable to this point, you need to find someone else that can make this a positive and rewarding experience for both the dog AND you. This is supposed to be fun, rewarding, and exciting process...not a painful or scary experience for either of you.

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by Jax08

Holy crap...RUN!

Explain to this new trainer what you were doing, what this "master" trainer was doing and the results. You don't need to give out names but I would explain exactly what this so called trainer was doing with your dog because they will need to know so they can fix it.

I agree with this as well. You don't need to mention any names if it makes you uncomfortable (honestly they'll probably know who you're talking about anyway), but your new trainer needs to know what they're dealing with. They may need to adjust their goals and approach based on what this current trainer has taught your dog.

[Nickyb]

Run... once you've worked with a good trainer, your stress levels go way down. What area do you live in, perhaps we can suggest a much better trainer for you. Training your dog should be a positive experience and you should leave happy, not in tears.... unless there tears of joy!

[frillint1]

I am not experienced or anything, but I would most certainly run! Training is supposed to be fun for you and your dog it also needs to end positive as I was recently told, because my adopted dog is fearful to training because of an abusive home. Let us know your location I'm sure there are many people here that can help you find a trainer who uses positive reinforcement.

[Gretchen]

Sounds like she's trying to break all the personality out of your dog. Really at the pinning down wrestling move, I would have been out of there. I know when you were watching this you were probably too stunned to think it out, but now that you can reflect on it, go with your gut.

We trained with prong collars, at the time it was what we needed, but our trainer never did a "pop" so hard that the dog yelped. If you like the place but not this trainer, you need to let the trainers know your limits on what you will let them do with your dog and be firm.

Will your dog trust you? Watch your dog's reaction when you bring it back, does he show fear or signs of stress? Or is he having fun? What is your goal? When we go to training, for me there must be some level of fun. Others may not care about that.

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by Gretchen

Sounds like she's trying to break all the personality out of your dog. Really at the pinning down wrestling move, I would have been out of there. I know when you were watching this you were probably too stunned to think it out, but now that you can reflect on it, go with your gut.

Totally agree with Gretchen, and I want to add a personal anecdote because from your post, OP, I suspect you are already beating yourself up.

I've been in your shoes, literally. A few times, I'm sorry to admit. But the thing is...you do your research, you place your trust in someone, you don't know that much about the subject, you pay good money...they do something you're uncomfortable with, but are you just being stupid? Maybe you're one of those dreaded "pet parents" that treats an animal like a human? Maybe this is how everyone does it, how it needs to be done? Maybe if you stop things, your dog is going to morph into an unruly monster? You don't know. Except most people will recognize abuse, and it sounds like you have. It's just hard to label it as such, since most of us have a tendency to minimize stuff like that.

I'm a professional horse trainer and always had the goal of becoming one, and as a teenager I did several things I regret hugely because successful trainers told me to (nothing illegal or obviously abusive, but cruel nonetheless IMO, and I knew it was wrong at the time). I've also done the same with a dog once, on a smaller scale.

Now, 20+ years later, as a professional horse trainer and an experienced dog handler, I'm pretty immune to that kind of pressure. But most people aren't--the whole point of hiring a trainer is that you place your confidence in them, because you don't have the knowledge to train your dog on your own. It's really hard to stop things in the moment, especially because most trainers are also good salesmen and have forceful personalities.

No reason to let it continue, though. Don't feel bad for not stopping it in the moment, but do your best to prevent it from happening in the future!

[Phoebes]

Thanks everybody! Well I feel better knowing I wasn't stupid for thinking "big dog" training shouldn't be this barbaric nightmare but I feel worse knowing I was right, I should've done more to stop it, Shadow didn't deserve it.

The "MT" studied training at PCCI in NJ. I hadn't heard of it but one of the references was Shadow's breeder and I watched one of her sessions before I brought him home. I spoke to her today and she said she needs the control so she can pass it to me. I'm his biggest distraction and so she broke my command so she can teach him to ignore every distraction. Her "big" clients are people who dont see their dogs for weeks, just hire people to care for them and most of her clients arent there while she works. That's not me.

The hold she did, she calls it "putting him in an arc" where she straddled him and pinned his head down. I didn't notice her flipping him over but one of her clients was restraining me because before I started all the crying I was going to jump in between them. I had no words and this was right before the holidays so it's been **** calling other places while they were probably out for winter break.

I'm currently in Puerto Rico, so I'm not sure you guys know anyone here but it's a small world. Tomorrow I'm meeting a trainer from Highland Canine Training school at North Carolina and on Friday I'm meeting some guys from Tom Rose. A 3rd option is another trainer from Tom Rose with a business in Missouri (Controlled Chaos) but he does training via Skype.

I hope one of these guys can help mend whatever damage has been done. Shadow wags his tail when I talk to him, I still get the slobbery kisses, his breathing is relaxed and he howls at me when I leave and when I come back. So I hope it's not all lost.

[selzer]

I don't know how old your pup is. I would not let this person or her cronies anywhere near your dog again.

I think that depending on the age of your puppy/dog, I would totally take a complete break from training. For a youngster 6 months or less, I would take 1-2 weeks off. 6-12 months 2-6 weeks off, and over 12 months old, I would probably take 2-3 months off.

I would just enjoy the dog during this time. Minimum stuff, take him on walks, or have him sit while you put the leash on him. Nothing major.

Then I would start all over again with treats and praise and basic commands. I would spend the waiting time, to find someone else to train with and explain that you had a bad experience with a trainer and you would like to sit in a class without your dog to see what methods the trainer uses.

After the break, take the dog to classes, keep training light and fun, and quit when your dog still wants more.

There is plenty of time to fine tune it later.

I think if people tried to stop me from getting to my dog, people would be getting decked.

[Phoebes]

Thanks Seltzer, he is 8 months old. Yup a break it'll be cuz I need to be triple sure about who we'll be working with next.

[Phoebes]

And thanks RowdyDogs expressed my sentiments exactly. Shadow is my first GSD, my first big breed dog. Previously I had Pomeranians and a Maltese that came pre-trained. I taught them all basic obedience but it was..easy. I was warned that training a "big dog" is supposed to be rough or the dog won't respect you. I was told of methods that make my awful training session seem heavenly by comparison and that I was being too nervous. So I had these 2nd doubts that maybe I am being an overprotective first time mommy. I feel pretty vindicated right now..