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Old 12-17-2012, 04:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I started using ecollar mainly for off leash controls - leave it and recall. I've a mini Einstein and it works well so far. I appreciate the LED lights for night time use.

So far so good. Due to my dog's temperament, the e-collar has worked great. I didn't learn thru Lou's methods but Michael Ellis' and I think they have similarities. One main thing that Ellis stress is that you have to teach it right to avoid superstitious behaviors that billsharp mentioned in his post. If you don't care and want the dog to think the car is causing the stim, then that may work for your purpose. But if you want to be able to use the ecollar for many things, you'll have to introduce it differently so it can be used for multiple things like digging and chasing cars, OB, etc. My dog knows when she got a stim for "leave it", it's for disobedience, not that the fresh horse poop is causing her the stim. I've seen her wanting to eat it, THEN look to see where I am and think (or so I think) "oh, she can see me, I better not since she can magically stim me even from that far away." Or when she wants to give chase, she looks at me and reconsiders. It's been great watching the transformation. Used at a working level, it's just a signal / reminder that "hey, you still need to listen even though you are off leash." But if fear/instinct takes over, I can stop it with a "correctional" stim, much like a hard yank on a prong. I don't think it needs to be a "last resort" type of training tool. The working level stim is less correction (in terms of pain) than a prong and less frequency is required. I love giving my dog off leash hikes so this has worked really well for that purpose - gives me piece of mind and more freedom for my dog.

I recommend checking with a trainer that is well versed in e-collar and your dog's temperament to see how it best can be used.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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For the out in the woods thing and obedience with you it would probably be fine if you invested the time into getting good one on one training and I agree with Lou's methods being the ones I would use. I like that the dog is really able to think because the stim is so low but it requires more of you in terms of learning to read the dog and time the stim.

For the rest of the family - I would make them as consistent as possible but I am not sure I would hand them the remote. Also you don't want the dog running around playing with another dog while wearing the collar. So for them........give them their own commands that may not be perfectly reinforced and build your commands for your time with your dog. that must be reliable all the time.

I would also beef up the fence. Fixing that with a dog who has it as an established behavior is going to be a lot of work requiring a lot of participation from everyone. Would everyone be on board that much? It would definitely be worth going to Lou for this one and seeing what he has to say!
Oh no, I didn't plan on letting them use the control. Only I would, but with them giving the commands at times so he understands they are also to be listened to. And until he is trustworthy outside he wouldn't be out without a lead.

What do you mean with the fence?
Everyone who lives there is definitely willing.

Also the dog he hangs out with is about 12" tall and they don't really wrestle or play very often.
Thanks!
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Check out Lou's stuff. Expect to spend several hundred dollars to get a GOOD e-collar. It is a very systematic approach of training the dog, not just correcting non compliance. He has some good articles.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thank you.

It's not something I really want to do, but I consider it an option.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I use the e-collar (and Lou's methods) with my boy very successfully. I invested in a good brand (with the cheaper ones, the shock intensity may very and there are fewer levels). I really like the TriTronics collar I currently use. I have a VERY handler sensitive dog who will shut down quickly, and I've found that he does much better using the e-collar (with a VERY low stim setting) than with the prong-- it's less confrontational and more versatile when training off-leash. We had a lot more success using this than we did with PO methods, as well. His recall is pretty much rock-solid using a combination of light stim and heavy reward upon return and it was very useful for long-distance obedience.

I will advise you-- wean carefully... a collar-savvy dog is really, really annoying!
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I just realized I told you the model number, but not the brand of the e-collar I have. LOL I have a Dogtra.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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When my dog was about 14 months old he had 90ish% recall.... maybe even a little better than that. We have a neighbor across the street who we go camping with and the two dogs are friends. He heard that dog barking and took off towards her, would not come back. Car was coming, luckily- a slow moving aware car- my dog was smack in the middle of the road when the car got to him. I went to the store and bought an ecollar that afternoon. My dog now has 100% recall with or without the collar. He LOVES his collar, wags and wiggles when I hold it up- he knows it means he's going to do something fun. You have to start with a long line, plan your distraction (make it a distraction he cannot resist), beep him and call him to come, he won't listen- shock. Call him to come again. MAKE him come by reeling him in if needed. He comes to you then, throw a party! It will take repetition and lots of it, but they do work. Put the work into it though, don't just use it as a punishment- you'll get much better results that way. I can use the beep now to teach him so many things..I can throw three toys, say go get ---- whichever one, beep if he picks the wrong one and he will go choose another till he's right ;-) doesn't take long for him to figure out what toys are named what! I taught him to drop at a dead run by hand signals, used the beep to get his attention on me to show him the down sign..now as soon as he retrieves something he looks to me for direction..it's really pretty cool the different ways you can use it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I definitely would start with Sgt Castle's methods / teachings - either on this forum or his site, www.loucastle.com.

He begins with the Recall. The dogtra model lhczth is, I think, 1 of the more popular. About $300. As soon as we're able, we'll be getting one.

BTW - If you email Sgt Castle with your phone #, he'll call you & happily answer your questions. I wouldn;'t go anywhere else but to him. I've seen the Ellis videos - he should talk to Sgt Castle, as well, IMO.
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