Legitimate use of Shock Collars? My experience..

[jocoyn]

I used Lou's way for stopping my dog from chasing game and I don't think there was any fear involved, unlike who knows what is going on with the high stim method.

The stim was at a very low level. After a couple of sessions with a chicken and a goat, it broke her concentration and the whole chase sequence before it started. Later she would still sense a prey animal in the woods [and yes, you learn to read the dog it is different than sensing another predator!] and you could see the interest but she would shut herself off before making a decision to chase. Now she did not have any nerve issues (at least that I knew about, she was a little DA) and Lou needs to address that, but what I saw was a dog who was very clear headed and making the right decision without my input.

I think they learn to accept the family cat etc. {well she was so bad I still did not trust her with them unless I was right there - no sense tempting the fates} and anything in the family is still different than anything "out there"

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by lone Ranger

Never thought of the fence charger. and I have several battery operated ones for horses but I am afraid they might be too strong.

I can guarantee that they'll hurt like heck! But that's the idea behind the training. Since you're working against a drive and the cost of a mistake, is the dog's life, you have to make a lasting impression at the outset and throughout the dog's life. Remember though, that I strongly recommend AGAINST doing this sort of training for several reasons. One is that it hurts the dogs, and I hate doing that. I will do so to save a life, but the threat from this kind of danger is more imagined than real. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, just that it's much more rare than real.

Originally Posted by lone Ranger

Not sure how I go with burying the fence charge wire, it would have to be moved to different locations and I am still concerned about their experience leading to a lack of confidence? You have feelings about that and what you would do?

You only need to bury the wire for about the last 5' of it's length. You only want the end sticking up enough to avoid contact with any vegetation so it doesn’t short out. Then put a piece of food on it so that it won't fall off or be knocked off by the wind or the dog running by and hitting it. If it's off the wire, and the dog gets it, he'll gamble for the rest of his life, getting shocked needlessly because you messed up the training. IT ONLY TAKES ONE ERROR TO MAKE YOUR DOG A GAMBLER! Another reason that I don't recommend this kind of training.

Since the dog can clearly make the association between his action and the shock, he knows what causes it, and how to avoid it, and it doesn't affect their confidence. That happens when the stim seems to be random and the dog doesn't know what caused, of how to make it stop.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by Bear L

Does that mean dogs that live with cats won't chase wildlife?

I WISH! Lol. No, unfortunately having a non-prey cat in the home, has nothing to do with it. Most dogs, especially if the animal is introduced when the dog is a puppy, will accept other family animals. But they usually don't generalize to outside cats or other animals.

Originally Posted by Bear L

My concern is ... not sure.... just want to think it thru since it involves my dog changing her perception about things. Before I just want her perception to be listening to whatever I say, so if I say no chase or abandon chase, she must comply. Your way, correct me freely if I'm stating it wrong, is teaching the dog to be fearful to chase.

I’m hereby correcting you. lol. If this was done at high levels of stim it WOULD create a fear of the chase and probably of the prey animal as well. Going back to the snake proofing model, there you want (and when it's done properly, you get) a dog that is AFRAID of the snake because he "bites" from a distance. But using low level stim the dogs don't become afraid of either the chase or the prey animal. In the snake model, you want the dog to RUN LIKE HECK from a snake. The cost of not doing so can be a slow agonizing death. In the crittering model you just want the dog not to start the chase.

Typically, the dogs see the prey animal and go right back to whatever they were doing. There's no avoidance with this system.

The method was developed to stop police dogs from chasing cats during yard-to-yard searches. If it resulted in the dogs fearing the cats, they might refuse to go into back yards where cat odor was present. In the urban environment, that's problaby just about every back yard out there. Either a cat lives there or has wandered through in the past several hours. WORSE, the dog might go into the back yard, and LOOK LIKE he was searching, fooling his handler and perhaps missing a crook that was hiding there, because he was so distracted by the chance of getting slammed by a shock.