R+ Training: Using the highest reinforcement

[wildo]

I love this. Found it via "Recommended Videos" on youtube. You could give this dog tons of corrections for being crazy. Or- you can use your brain to find the highest reinforcement in the environment (not hard in this case) and use that reinforcement to your advantage. Positive training at its best. Great video:

Epic learning a big lesson - YouTube

Epic learning a big lesson - YouTube

[t.lesniak]

Yeah I get it.
But, I can work my male around a female in heat and I dont have to allow him to run over and molest her as a reward.

[sheep]

I can get the rewarding part, but it seems a bit stressing for the male dog. In the end, he seemed calmer (after exercising a bit?), but even so he was still alert (restlessness).

[wildo]

Originally Posted by sheep

I can get the rewarding part, but it seems a bit stressing for the male dog. In the end, he seemed calmer (after exercising a bit?), but even so he was still alert (restlessness).

That was addressed in the comments:
GoneToTheeDogs:
2:38 doesn't seemed relaxed at all....just not as fidgitiy. Still gungho about getting to the bitch. Still craziness on the inside. Can't call that relaxed in the least. You can still see the dog on the edge waiting for the release.

klickerklok:
Absolutely. That's why I wrote "more relaxed". Training is not done after just a day, and it's also not likely that the dog will be sleepy-relaxed in a training setting right after seeing a bitch in heat. He did sleep well in the house with the bitches around though.

[wildo]

The lesson is that the dog must learn to work through stress. This is appropriately taught through positive reinforcement without having to correct the bejesus out of the dog. Threads about compulsion vs positive reinforcement all go the same place: with the same people asking directly how one would deal with such a problem. This video demonstrates exactly how a smart R+ trainer would deal with the problem. They find a solution by controlling the reinforcement.

[Liesje]

I don't get GoneToTheDogs' comment. Do we *want* dogs to be relaxed during agility? I don't! " You can still see the dog on the edge waiting for the release." Perfect!

I was having trouble with Pan at flyball getting so loaded up. Our problem was that the activity itself is so rewarding for him. I can't take a reward and then use that to maintain control because all he really wants to do is do flyball (the reward tug is really there to control him at the end and give the handler a chance to grab him before he starts running again). It will be interesting to see Jason fix this, being an infinitely better trainer than I he probably has already, lol. Sometimes the best thing for Pan was just waiting him out. Having him come in, watch other dogs warm up and run first, and literally lie on top of him (in a down) until he quit howling and was still very intense and focused but not in such a frantic way that he risked hurting himself. I'm not against corrections but in many cases with my dogs corrections only load the dog higher and that was usually the case here (though it was so hard not to yell at him and correct him for being so insane!).

[sheep]

Originally Posted by wildo

The lesson is that the dog must learn to work through stress. This is appropriately taught through positive reinforcement without having to correct the bejesus out of the dog. Threads about compulsion vs positive reinforcement all go the same place: with the same people asking directly how one would deal with such a problem. This video demonstrates exactly how a smart R+ trainer would deal with the problem. They find a solution by controlling the reinforcement.

You mean the point of this is to show how one can redirect the stress energy? To show how we can do it when dealing with stressful dogs? (otherwise I hope that this is not used as another form of motivator for training, I mean the excited energy from the motivation is different from using hormones or toys/treats/plays)

[wolfy dog]

So in this video they use the possibility of sex as a reward? Why would you "torture" a dog like that? What happened at the very end of the video when he couldn't control his hormones any longer and started air humping? Is that why the camera stopped? By thwe way, the collie was not calm at all; he just modified his behavior to get to breed the dog.
I would have asked the owner of the female in heat to leave with her dog. There are plenty other situations to work your dog through to teach him focus.
Try to ask a young man to solve some math problems in the presence of an "available beauty".

[wildo]

Read the youtube comments- bitches in heat are allowed to train at that facility. As such, the dog must learn to work around that distraction.

[wolfy dog]

Originally Posted by wildo

Read the youtube comments- bitches in heat are allowed to train at that facility. As such, the dog must learn to work around that distraction.

I know but it was only my personal opinion. Personally I would not use a female in heat to "reward" WD. I would try keep his focus on me at all times by increasing the distance or leave myself. If they need to work in the presence of these distractions they have to learn to ignore them.
The collie has excellent impulse control but not focus on the owner in this situation, otherwise why would (s)he need a leash for him?