Michael Ellis Remote Collar Theory

[RocketDog]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

Thats too bad about not having a trainer to help you.
What is the main reason you want to use one?

Mostly to proof an absolute recall out backpacking. I own a Dogtra SureStim H Plus, that I used the "vibrate" only function on to stop his beginning barking at the next door horses. It only took a few vibrates honestly. He still wears it when he goes out down there, mostly because it's only been about 4 months and I want to make sure. I don't necessarily believe in "trained" in only a month or two. I know it takes more time to really extinguish or proof a behavior. I also used it ONCE on deer, this time on a low level electric stim, when he started out to give chase. He did not yip but instead immediately turned towards me and started to come back. I immediately let off the stim when he turned towards me. We've only encountered one or two deer since then, and he responded well to my "leave it". I have not used it for anything else.

I would like to learn how to proof his recall under drive, such as in these situations, or if he sees another dog off-leash, since dogs are his "crack", lol. I have not attempted any other kind of use because I don't feel I have learned enough. I've read Lou Castle's site thoroughly, but there is a video training series suggested by a member here I want to purchase and "proof" myself with before beginning serious training with it. I simply have not started it yet.

Rocket is a GREAT dog, and is very reliable in most situations. We train and proof steadily, but I feel like he needs a bit of seriousness added. I feel like if the dog or attraction (as in cougar or bear) were enticing enough, he would likely not even hear me or even blow me off. To me, his reaction with the paging function and the horses, indicates he could respond well to ecollar training. I just want to do it properly. He recovers very well from correction, but I don't want to "mess" anything up with him.

[Yoschi's_Pet_Human]

I always have been intrigued by these collars.. having grew up with a very high strung dobie/rott mix... this thing would have been a life saver... the lady I purchased yoschi from forbids them... I had to sign a contract stating I would never use anything electric with Yoschi, such as collars or fences.. if I do she reserves the right to take him back... a few other things like kicking and hitting were also included. I actually read some online reviews complaining about her confiscating dogs from owners that violated these rules... she's a serious woman...lol

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by RocketDog

Mostly to proof an absolute recall out backpacking. I own a Dogtra SureStim H Plus, that I used the "vibrate" only function on to stop his beginning barking at the next door horses. It only took a few vibrates honestly. He still wears it when he goes out down there, mostly because it's only been about 4 months and I want to make sure. I don't necessarily believe in "trained" in only a month or two. I know it takes more time to really extinguish or proof a behavior. I also used it ONCE on deer, this time on a low level electric stim, when he started out to give chase. He did not yip but instead immediately turned towards me and started to come back. I immediately let off the stim when he turned towards me. We've only encountered one or two deer since then, and he responded well to my "leave it". I have not used it for anything else.

I would like to learn how to proof his recall under drive, such as in these situations, or if he sees another dog off-leash, since dogs are his "crack", lol. I have not attempted any other kind of use because I don't feel I have learned enough. I've read Lou Castle's site thoroughly, but there is a video training series suggested by a member here I want to purchase and "proof" myself with before beginning serious training with it. I simply have not started it yet.

Rocket is a GREAT dog, and is very reliable in most situations. We train and proof steadily, but I feel like he needs a bit of seriousness added. I feel like if the dog or attraction (as in cougar or bear) were enticing enough, he would likely not even hear me or even blow me off. To me, his reaction with the paging function and the horses, indicates he could respond well to ecollar training. I just want to do it properly. He recovers very well from correction, but I don't want to "mess" anything up with him.

I use an e collar with Odin for the same reason. We are in the mountains a lot and there is LOTS of wildlife around here. This fall a dog (on leash) was eaten by a grizzly bear! I once lost Odin for about 20 minutes on the side of a mountain when he took off after a rabbit Having an e collar for him is a must when we are in the woods!

I would suggest doing a proper e collar intro with your dog before you have to use it for an emergency. It's a much more humane tool if the dog understands what it's for and how to turn it off.

[RocketDog]

Well, we did do the intro from Lou Castle's website last spring, with the same Dogtra I borrowed from my breeder. From the few times I've used it, I think he does understand it's a correction that he can control.

I really really wish there were a trainer here--I need to find a Labrador club or hunting club I guess. I'm thinking they probably have ecollar trainers there that I can talk to to see if they might be a good fit.

[onyx'girl]

The trainer I work with is a field retrieve/hunt competitor(as well as an AKC obedience competitor/trainer)...so some methods she knows of are 'old school' but she uses different techniques than many of her fellow competitors.
I'd be cautious if you do find a hunt club person for help, make sure they aren't rushing the process with too much pressure.
We taught it with using target plates, placeboards & a wobble-board~ added in commands on the boards, then taught directionals with distractions. A prong was used in the beginning along with the e-collar. I was the one handling the remote at all times.

[RocketDog]

I completely agree Jane. This is what is so frustrating for me-- Spokane County is over 600,000 people. I think the ecollar is a very viable and humane tool in the box for some dogs if used properly. I can't freakin believe its so hard to find someone here! Grrr.

[Vislor]

I must say you guys all seem very sensible and civilised in relation to talking about e-collars. In the UK if anyone so much as whispers the word "e-collar" on any online forum a full scale civil war breaks out!

We've learned how to use them over the years and had a little help from the likes of Jogi Zank and Bart Bellon in developing the proper techniques. Its a very handy tool, but very misunderstood.

[lhczth]

Vislor, just wait. It isn't always civil here either.

[Vislor]

Originally Posted by lhczth

Vislor, just wait. It isn't always civil here either.

Well you've had at least one page of civil conversation and that has impressed me enough :P

Theres always the same "camps" regarding e-collars;
1st. Those who have endeavoured to learn how to effectively use them and find them a very useful tool to add to their (hopefully large and varied) toolbox,
2nd. Those who don't understand them but think they do, use them and abuse them as the only tool in their tool box,
3rd. Those who are thinking about using them but are unsure and are seeking good advice and
4th. The hysterical reactionary nut jobs that have no idea, have probably never even seen one but are 100% convinced that they are some sort of hellish weapon of mass destruction.

Its the fight between the 2nd and 4th camp that tends to blow up, which convinces the 3rd camp to either leave them alone or use them incorrectly whilst the 1st camp carries tries to bite their tongue and stay out of it

[Bear L]

Originally Posted by KristiM

I use an e collar with Odin for the same reason. We are in the mountains a lot and there is LOTS of wildlife around here. This fall a dog (on leash) was eaten by a grizzly bear! I once lost Odin for about 20 minutes on the side of a mountain when he took off after a rabbit Having an e collar for him is a must when we are in the woods!

I would suggest doing a proper e collar intro with your dog before you have to use it for an emergency. It's a much more humane tool if the dog understands what it's for and how to turn it off.

I, too, am looking to learn how to use it for recall - for wildlife and chasing dogs away from playing in "her" river.

Did Odin come back full from a meal?