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-   -   Finding myself on the fence on two issues..... (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/194372-finding-myself-fence-two-issues.html)

wolfy dog 11-14-2012 01:12 PM

Finding myself on the fence on two issues.....
 
1.
Until this week I would have never imagined finding myself on the fence regarding training methods. The last ten years I have only used the positive training techniques that worked well with my own and clients' dogs.
WD however has gotten so strong physically that I once wished I had a prong collar; the time on a trail that he lunged at another dog, held by the collar by his owner, who was dressed in camouflage gear and hiding in shrubbery (:crazy:) I know it would set off the gentlest dog. He almost pulled me off my feet.
My main worry about this collar is that he will associate other people, dogs and "things" with the negative feeling of the collar and make things worse.
So far he has been gentle but this was a definite change in him (he is 9.5 months old). At home we practice the NILIF treatment.

2. I was always against kenneling my dogs outside and never have (so far). Actually I had a post recently, feeling sorry for the "growing up boys" who got a new kennel (couldn't find the post anymore to change my mind there).
WD was raised in a kennel at his breeder so he knows it. My gut feeling tells me it is OK and he needs that confinement once in a while but it goes against everything I have practiced so far. How do you guys feel about that? How did your dogs respond to tie outside in a kennel? By the way: WD will mostly be indoors with us. The outside kennel will basically replace his indoor crate time.

Yep, WD has broadened my horizon on many issues, humbling to say the least.

lostangl 11-14-2012 01:18 PM

I can only speak for myself. I have a male that is so strong that I couldn't hold him back if he wanted to take off, so I got a prong and it was the best thing I did! He didn't have a problem with it and learned not to pull, I only had to use it for a short time.

I don't leave my dogs outside unless we aren't home and they are always inside at night. If you are going to kennel him anyway, why not do it inside in a crate?

kiya 11-14-2012 01:30 PM

I have used prong collars when needed over 20 years. I don't think any of my dogs have negative associations with the collar. The 2 older dogs go out with plain collars on now but I still use the prong on Lakota because she will get over the top with deer or squirrels, instead of her lunging forward she will jump straight up. I'd rather have her doing that than choking herself.

Blanketback 11-14-2012 01:47 PM

I would rather have my dog on a prong collar than have him pull with all his strength against a flat collar, since I'm sure that's not good for the neck. Another thing that rarely gets mentioned is how it affects the person: when the dog is on a prong, you have control of your dog and therefore you're calm, but if the dog is pulling you all over, you're stressed and the dog will certainly pick up on this. If your dog can pull you over, that's another thing to consider.

Liesje 11-14-2012 02:49 PM

I've not had problems with dogs associating prongs with bad things. In fact if you jingle a prong they will coming running and want to go out! I would not use a prong if you plan to just put it on and let the dog lunge (I know a lot of people think this is how to use it, "self-correcting"). If you use it you need to be comfortable with *using* it, like giving your dog corrections and helping him learn what is appropriate/allowed. When I use a prong for behavior or for training specific things I use "NePoPo" which means the negative is paired with positive, so my dog always gets feedback for responding to the correction and then making the right choice.

martemchik 11-14-2012 03:00 PM

My dog has absolutely no bad association with a prong...and its the only way I could get through his thick skull sometimes. I didn't want to use it when he was young, and our instructor told us that he needs it because no other corrections worked for him. So we got a prong, and now I rarely put it on. Generally when learning something new, or just trying to fix a certain obedience thing.

I find that if I pick up the prong he gets excited if anything...he knows we're either going outside or to work. I'm not sure if you truly understand the kind of correction a prong gives off...its really not painful, its more of a reminder. A reminder that you're in charge and a reminder that something else is needed from the dog.

jprice103 11-14-2012 04:05 PM

I've used prongs on both of mine at some point. Cheyenne hasn't needed one since she grew out of the butthead teenage stage. Panzer is in that stage, and I will only walk him on a prong, because he reacts very strongly to other dogs and sometimes I just can't control him. I never "use" correction on the prong, but let them self-correct. This has seemed to work well for me.

Regarding an outside kennel. If I had to kennel my dogs during the day, and could move it outside on nice days, I definitely would. Using kennels as a home for a dog...I could never do. If I'm home, my dogs are with me in my house, or outside if I am outside. But as an alternative to an indoor kennel when I'm not home...absolutely! As long as I knew they were sheltered from the elements should the weather change!

wolfy dog 11-14-2012 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jprice103 (Post 2629482)
I've used prongs on both of mine at some point. Cheyenne hasn't needed one since she grew out of the butthead teenage stage. Panzer is in that stage, and I will only walk him on a prong, because he reacts very strongly to other dogs and sometimes I just can't control him. I never "use" correction on the prong, but let them self-correct. This has seemed to work well for me.

Regarding an outside kennel. If I had to kennel my dogs during the day, and could move it outside on nice days, I definitely would. Using kennels as a home for a dog...I could never do. If I'm home, my dogs are with me in my house, or outside if I am outside. But as an alternative to an indoor kennel when I'm not home...absolutely! As long as I knew they were sheltered from the elements should the weather change!

Thanks, this confirms what I was thinking of.

TrentL 11-14-2012 04:22 PM

Draven (my 4 month old) spends about 6 hours a day in his kennel even of we are home

If I'm going to crate him because I can't watch him he goes in his kennel instead

He is calm and just chills in his kennel. Because its routine it's nice to m or I don't have to rush home etc.

He never sleeps outside he is in my bedroom with me and spends evenings with the family inside.

But he needs his time and the family needs ours too.

Works great he isn't trilled about going in the kennel but he doesn't hate it either.




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bigd3077 11-14-2012 04:47 PM

My dog has no problem with the prong. (4 months) she sits and lets me put it on, and does not pull at all. I experimented and walked her with the regular collar, and she was pretty good, but pulled. I don't let her self correct.


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