Finding myself on the fence on two issues.....

[selzer]

You have to keep your dog safe. If a prong collar will keep your dog safer than no prong collar, than go for it.

I try to have an outdoor kennel for each of my dogs. I am STILL down one since I separated the puppies from the dam, and so now Babs is in the house 24/7, This, in my opinion is not ideal. I love for Babs to be in, and when I am there she generally is inside, but I think they do very well having outdoor time as well.

A well-constructed, secure kennel in a fenced yard can be safer and more comfortable for a dog than leaving the dog the run of the house. For one thing the dog can drink and potty at will, rather than trying to hold it, or keeping to a schedule, which can, if there is a traffic jam or something, cause the dog discomfort or to have an accident.

My dogs rush outside to their kennels and go into them without any hesitation. It is a part of their life, and they do not find it onerous. There are other dogs in kennels there as well, so they are not totally bored out of their minds.

[MattLink]

If you NEED to use that method then do it. But if you don't believe that method is right -- I do think you can find other ways of handling the problem, wether its other tools or just a change to your training, or both. I'm a pretty firm believer that there's always options


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[RowdyDogs]

I use positive training in my dogs, but I don't see a prong collar as all that different than the Halti I used to train my adult GSD to walk on leash. I have not seen dogs become fearful because of it unless it is misused--and honestly not even usually the, the result I see there is a reinforcement of pulling rather than a correction. I know my GSD will pull through any prong collar like it is a flat collar but doesn't like the Halti's results--it may not be physical discomfort but it is frustrating for him.

I would say that ultimately, control is the big thing, combined with training. If you're working on teaching your dog not to pull, but when surprises show up you need some physical means of control, then I say do it. The only time I complain is when I see prongs being used by people who clearly don't care to train their dogs.

As for the outdoor kennel, I think that depends on your dog. I don't see a big difference between indoor crating and outdoor kenneling if they're done for the same reasonable (for indoor crating) amount of time, and provided the dog is protected from the elements.

[x11]

i figure if you don't have the physical strength to hold a dog on a flat collar should it lunge then you have no business owning that particular dog.

not being sexist but the biggest rottweilers i have seen are owned by the smallest women i have seen. the dogs end up needing a few extra vertabrae to fit all the gadgets and collars on its neck - and for what??

[Castlemaid]

Originally Posted by x11

i figure if you don't have the physical strength to hold a dog on a flat collar should it lunge then you have no business owning that particular dog.

not being sexist but the biggest rottweilers i have seen are owned by the smallest women i have seen. the dogs end up needing a few extra vertabrae to fit all the gadgets and collars on its neck - and for what??

LOL, not being sexist! Good one!

Absolutely nothing wrong with using the appropriate collar to be in control, regardless of size, sex, physical ability or culturally influenced gender bias.

And as mentioned in many other threads. Take a prong collar, put it around your arm, your leg, even your neck and pull on it - it is not a big deal! but the dogs understand and respect the effect of the prong, it communicates a message to them. A flat is only a physical bump on their way to getting what they want that they can easily ignore if strong enough.

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by x11

i figure if you don't have the physical strength to hold a dog on a flat collar should it lunge then you have no business owning that particular dog.

not being sexist but the biggest rottweilers i have seen are owned by the smallest women i have seen. the dogs end up needing a few extra vertabrae to fit all the gadgets and collars on its neck - and for what??

I weigh 117 pounds as of yesterday. My GSD is small, only about 65 pounds (and only trained in a flat collar, except when I was walking him with my 3 other 40-pound dogs by myself, when I put them all in Haltis). But I've also recently worked with my neighbors' Great Pyrenees and a friends Great Danes...

Oh yeah, and I make my living as a professional horse trainer. My smallest professional client weighs about 900 pounds...and that's because I now work with a smaller breed; I used to work with larger one that averaged about 1200 pounds...managed them just fine...

It isn't about physical strength. A full-sized dog can overpower virtually any adult male; otherwise, we wouldn't have protection dogs. A very small horse can overpower any person; that's just physics. The reason we've survived as a species is our intelligence; it's still the reason we manage to not be devoured by our dogs and kicked to death by our horses. Also a few thousand years of domestication mean that we rarely if ever have to use violence to get them to comply...

For the record, I've held an 1800 pound draft stallion on a flat halter when he'd attacked another stud. I only remotely struggle with any of my dogs if I'm not paying attention and get caught off-balance--but they're trained so they feel that pull and they stop anyway.

Saying that it is about physical size may not be sexist, but it shows your ignorance.

[x11]

..."And as mentioned in many other threads. Take a prong collar, put it around your arm, your leg, even your neck and pull on it - it is not a big deal! but the dogs understand and respect the effect of the prong, it communicates a message to them. A flat is only a physical bump on their way to getting what they want that they can easily ignore if strong enough. "

no doubt, agreed fully. wasn't questioning the use of a prong or any other collar used appropriately. my point was imo a guide to a suitable dog for a specific handler regardless of race, religion or creed and other culture influence gender bias stuff. i think if a dog has the physical ability to overpower the handler the handler should have not be handling that dog. has nothing to do with the training of the dog - just a bench-mark measure independent of gender religion....culture influenced bias stuff.

at my age i got 1 or 2 max, high drive dogs left in me. at that point i will gracefully switch breeds progressively untill i guess i will eventually die with a pomeranian? sitting on my lap.

i already switched from thoroughbreds to warmbloods when next a straight cold blood?

[x11]

RowdyDogs - thin girls at sea-world can also train killer whales, and skinny people can drive a bull elephant like a car. wasn't my point - i know training works, just my personal benchmark.

[Blanketback]

Aww, poor you x11! I'm going to have GSDs 'till I die, no matter how old and frail I get. But maybe I'll adopt senior GSDs then? Who knows, but I'm not living without a GSD. And they can be trained not to lunge and pull, you know.

[x11]

do you feel sorry for me for not having a gsd or for having a pomeranian??...jk

out of curiosity Blanketback, don't know how old you are but have you thought about any provisions for yr gsd should it survive you??? serious question that provokes hysteria for some reason - that is not the intention for asking tho - sorry to OP for the OT.