A Trained Dog Should Respond Under Any Circumstances? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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A Trained Dog Should Respond Under Any Circumstances?

Do you think a with a certain level of training should respond under any circumstance? For example, if you are hiking off leash with your dog and it takes off after wildlife but stops when you say,is that a flaw in training or just a dog being a dog?

I was at the feed store today and saw a Cattle Dog and Rottweiler laying down in the parking lot. The owner was inside buying food and got furious when the two dogs moved because a fork lift was moving behind them about two feet away. His thinking was that the dogs shouldn't have moved at all. They didn't stand all the way up,but crawled out of the way a little bit.

Personally I wouldn't choose to put my dogs in a down in the middle of a busy parking lot,even if I knew they would stay there.I also think that dogs will still be dogs no matter what level of training they have.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 12:58 PM
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Yes, I believe once the dog is mature / solid foundation in training and proofing has been done so you know it's real and not chance that a dog should respond under any circumstances.

I prefer your first example - off leash hiking and dog takes off after wildlife ... my dog better come back LOL I don't believe it's a dog being a dog ... Depending on where I'm hiking, I've let Ky chase squirrels til she trees them, or I'll call her off it immediately. And she ALWAYS comes back INSTANTLY - regardless of when I've called her. I use different times when she's chasing so that I am constantly testing her recall.

I've tested Kyleigh's stay with a number of distractions - I've thrown her favourite toys and had them land right beside her, I've tossed food in her direction, had it land about 5 inches from her nose ... should she move? Absolutely not.

Your second example - personally I think the owner was showing neglect in placing his dogs in a "bad" place to be told to stay. In this situation, I would have assessed WHY my dogs moved - AHA forklift ... SMART dog for knowing to get out of the way ... dumb owner for putting them in a precarious situation, and not being there to look after them.

Make sense?

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 12:58 PM
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I think this says more about the handler than the dogs. The dogs knew they could be hurt, so they moved. The owner wasn't bright enough to see that danger. At that point (if I'd have been there) someone would be needing to cough up some bail money. So in this instance, you have 2 smart dogs and one stupid owner. If you've got a dog that's so obedient that they'd stay there (risking their lives), then I'd say that's not a very bright dog.

Sorry, I got so upset over the above that I neglected the other part. Do you mean that the dog shouldn't have started to chase the wildlife to begin with? Only if the dog was in a heel. Just off lead walking around? I'd only expect the dog to come back when called... but to start the chase to begin with wouldn't be a fault unless the dog was in a heel.

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Last edited by Jag; 11-08-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:08 PM
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I think survival instincts will beat out training any day of the week.

It's one thing to consciously disobey it's owner, it's another to let itself be crushed to death by a vehicle.

I think it would be something like how it's impossible to suffocate yourself by holding your breath.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:17 PM
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To your first example- I have Koda trained not to go after wildlife. She can and will look and watch, but she won't chase any. The same goes for random dogs. She can watch but she is to stay by me unless I tell her otherwise. If I allow her to take off, I expect her to IMMEDIATELY return upon my call.

To the second- If I had Koda in a down/stay in a dangerous environment, she would definitely move away from the danger. And I would NOT blame her for that. I personally wouldn't put her there in the first place But if something happened that made her feel that her life was in jeopardy I would expect nothing less than for her to move away from it. (:

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:25 PM
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Dogs are not robots and I am glad most are smarter than their owners in these cases.
Otherwise you couldn't raise guide dogs.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:31 PM
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When I have my dog off leash, I keep an eye on him so if he might be alerted to something, just an "eh" reminds him to stay on the path. Plus the training to not chase things adds up to a dog that stays put.

If I told my dog to stay in one spot, I'd expect him to stay there. BUT I'm talking about a safe spot, not something so ridiculous as what you've described. If I told my dog to stay in one spot and something happened that made it unsafe for some reason, I'd expect him to move out of harms way.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:35 PM
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For those of you that taught your dogs not to chase wildlife when not in a heel, how did you do this? Was it compulsion? Just a quick answer, not a whole step by step unless you feel compelled to. I've never had a dog off lead, so I've never trained for this.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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The question should have probably been would you expect your dogs to stay in one spot if danger arrived? You guys pretty much asked the question that I was trying to,just couldn't word it. According to this man, 'there is no excuse to move EVER.' If this was a safe environment, I would agree,but I wouldn't expect my dogs to stay put when a vehicle could hit them. I did see the driver of the forklift slow down to manuver around the dogs before they moved,but it came uncomfortably close.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 01:40 PM
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OK - LOVE this thread and am inspired by your responses about how reliable your dogs are on recall. Would it be considered hijacking this thread if I asked HOW IN WORLD DID YOU GET THERE?! Sorry, just a little discouraged/frustrated at my own lack of progress in training my 1 yr old male. ;-)

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