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Old 11-08-2012, 01:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think a trained dog should come back when called even if something interesting is going on. That being said, you have to know your dog. I know for 100% certainty that Sasha would not come if I called her and she was chasing a bunny. So I don't allow her to be off leash in non-fenced in areas. Can training overcome that? Maybe. We're working on it, but until I know that she will she won't get to be off leash in situations where she could run off.

As to the other situation I think the ability for the dogs to assess the danger and move out of the way was a good thing. I would never want Sasha to obey me in a situation where he life was in danger. The whole reason you teach them to obey is so that they are safer, so why fault them for staying safe?
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The question should have probably been would you expect your dogs to stay in one spot if danger arrived? You guys pretty much asked the question that I was trying to,just couldn't word it. According to this man, 'there is no excuse to move EVER.' If this was a safe environment, I would agree,but I wouldn't expect my dogs to stay put when a vehicle could hit them. I did see the driver of the forklift slow down to manuver around the dogs before they moved,but it came uncomfortably close.
I'd have decked the guy. For his dogs. I'm sure he sends his kids out in the street to play, also.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It can be expected, but not counted on, therefore I wouldn't put my dogs in this position.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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For those of you that taught your dogs not to chase wildlife when not in a heel, how did you do this? Was it compulsion? Just a quick answer, not a whole step by step unless you feel compelled to. I've never had a dog off lead, so I've never trained for this.
When I was teaching Koda, I noticed that before she ran off after something she got a certain look. Her head would drop, her hackles would bristle slightly and she would pause. I began clipping a 4 ft lead on her when this happened. And I would put her in a sit or a down until it passed.
Sometimes I wouldn't clip her to the lead, and would let her get about 5 ft away before calling her back and putting her in a down/stay. I always praised/treated her when she did not try to fight my ruling. After a week or so I stopped leashing her and would simply put her in a sit or down. After that I slowly weaned her off of that so that we could just walk by. (: At this point, she looks at me every few steps to see what I want her to do. She does still sit sometimes for deer though xD
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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OK, thanks! Grim will be my first try at a dog off lead. Needless to say, it scares the crap out of me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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OK, thanks! Grim will be my first try at a dog off lead. Needless to say, it scares the crap out of me.
lol Me too. How do you let go? lol

My pup is a long way from going off lead! Her recall is pretty good, but I don't have a handle on her prey drive yet, so she's on a training line.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Maybe just slowly increase the length of your lead as you gain more control (:
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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For those of you that taught your dogs not to chase wildlife when not in a heel, how did you do this? Was it compulsion? Just a quick answer, not a whole step by step unless you feel compelled to. I've never had a dog off lead, so I've never trained for this.
It takes a mature dog to stop in his tracks. WD chased a deer the other day and was gone for about 10 minutes. Came back with a heavenly look in his face. I rewarded him for coming back. I know that when he is older and further trained that I can stop his initial sprint as I have with other dogs but it takes a while before they are that advanced.
Right now I can stop him when I see that he sees a deer by "Leave It" and have him sit until it is out of sight. I have to work against a strong predatory instinct and I know it will take time before I can call him back from the hunt so in the meantime I have to be very vigilant on the trails and train, train, train that big adolescent-and- full-of-himself guy.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes, regardless of the circumstances, my dog will listen to me or something is wrong. I say dog because Frag is the only one with that level of training right now.

For example, Frag hates the vet and is muzzle and usually growls through any procedure they put him through. That's fine, it's getting better, but the growling isn't going to go away over night. HOWEVER, he is NOT allowed to disobey me just because he's mad, upset, whatever. He still sits, downs, stays, stands, comes, etc. at the vet regardless of what they're doing when I tell him to.

As for off-leash recall, he has virtually none, but he will stop on command, so he's off leash a lot on parts of our hikes where there aren't people around. Two nights ago we saw a buck and doe in a clearing at our favorite place, and we've seen them before. As long as I can notice within the first 10 seconds of Frag noticing (his thinking is usually stop and get anxious for the first 5 and start to run after in the next 5) I can call him off. So he saw this deer as I did, and I just made him sit and stay as the deer ran away. He barks at them to high heaven, and he can bark until he's blue in the face, but no chasing. I know he wouldn't come back! Same thing goes for cats, rabbits, and squirrels... all of which we have come through our *unfenced* yard quite frequently.

Another good example is the vacuum cleaner. He doesn't mind it at all, but I have to tell him where to move while I'm vacuuming so that I can get to all of the floor. I'll usually vacuum a spot then make him go lie there and stay. The vacuum will come near him and usually touch him while I'm vacuuming the surrounding areas and without a stay he'd get up and move, but then he'd lay in another dirty spot and have to move AGAIN, so I make him stay, and he does.

It's completely different IMO than expecting them to lay or down, do whatever, through a DANGEROUS situation. That's the owner's fault for downing two dogs where a forklift would be. If I did something like that with Frag but out of the WAY of the forklift entirely, I would expect him to lay right there and not budge if it wasn't going to hurt him.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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As for chasing wildlife, I've always had other pets in my home (dog, cat, rat, bird - not including lizard, turtle, etc.) so I think this helps take the "thrill" away, and I also live in an area where the squirrels absolutely thrive (and we have rabbit, skunk, raccoon, coyote, deer - and more, but only the rabbits are on my lawn, plus the bird feeders) so I don't need to use compulsion, it's just a combo of "no" and "leave it" over and over again. My puppy actually doesn't even notice the chipmunks anymore, believe it or not. One was sitting (it 'froze' to avoid being noticed) on our fence rail as we walked right past it last week - not even 2' away! The wild birds are very bold and my puppy is totally bored with them, lol. He can lay beside the feeder and have a nap while they're feasting. So chasing wildlife is something that just doesn't happen. Oh, actually he does always want to jump in after the frogs. That needs constant verbal reinforcement to keep him out of the swampy water, lol. But they're gone for the season now.
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