Is NILIF a nasty dog training tool?

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by Germanshepherdlova

because the book I read about NILIF said that once your dog knew what sit meant-at meal time you were to command him to sit once and if he didn't obey then do not offer the food again to the next meal-

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Who wrote that book, Kim Jong Il?

[Germanshepherdlova]

Originally Posted by Emoore

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Who wrote that book, Kim Jong Il?

I read it a couple years ago and got it at a library a couple cities away from mine-but when I get around to it I am going to go back there and try to find it and then I will let you know the name and author because I don't remember. I know me and my husband tried it but didn't get very far with it.

[onyx'girl]

Originally Posted by Emoore

I start it as soon as they know "sit." Want to go out and play? sit. Want to come out of your kennel? sit. Want me to pick you up? Sit. Want your food? Sit. Then as they learn more behaviors, I always ask for a simple, well-known cue before I give them something they want.

Of course with baby puppies you do a lot of luring their little nose with the food bowl or whatever it is they want.

of course. I just wanted to clarify for some who read this think they should implement NILIF when they bring home a baby. The pup must understand first. Luring/shaping marking then begin....

[chelle]

I'm a big fan of NILIF. I've used portions of it with my three dogs and with my son's dog when she was here.

Portions might be the key word.

Dogs must sit and wait for the ok before I will put the bowls down. That actually came about because it is beyond annoying to have a dog "rush" the water bowl and spill it. So therefore, you shall wait until it is down and you are given the "ok." If you "rush" it, it will come right back up. I'll repeat that if needed... but I'll continue to repeat until I get the behavior I want, rather than to just pull it and let them go without. This was a really easy thing to teach. I don't know, Germanshepherdlova, why your boy is stubborn with this. It came easy to mine. I don't know what I would've done otherwise.

My dogs have rarely received any treats without *something.* Maybe just a "shake," but they have to do something for it.

As far as who goes out the door first and all of that, ehhh, that's more about what is convenient to me. How many dogs on/offleash am I trying to manage and all that.

So I don't follow all the NILIF rules.

[selzer]

My dogs get their morning meal outside. And occasionally, if they are being nutty, I will have them wait or sit before I give them their dish of food. Bear was being particularly amped about getting her food one day, so I wanted her to sit before opening her kennel. She would not. It was not a matter of refusing to do what I wanted, but more an I'm so excited my brain isn't working right now.

I stood there and waited it out. I refused to open the gate until her bottom was touching the ground. And it did.

[Germanshepherdlova]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

If you feed kibbles. You can always take the kibble, throw it, then have him come back and sit, reward him with the next kibble (throwing it) an so on and on. Then if he's doing great, put the food down as a jackpot. That's how I do it.
You can do the same for down.

He is listens to me now, but he was Alpha trained.But thanks for giving me this idea-I may try some of this with my next puppy if he is normal.

[Liesje]

You can use whatever incompatible behaviors you want to implement NILIF. "Sit" is common because it's incompatible with most things dogs do that are considered "bad" (door dashing, crowding, counter surfing, bouncing on guests...). It doesn't have to revolve around set meals. Nikon likes to have a "snack" with me at bed time. I'm on these antibiotics that sit better with food so I have a small snack and he always reminds me it's snack time by herding me into the kitchen and then he will point at what he wants. Do I let him jump up on the counter and start pulling food down? No, I say "what do you want?" and he usually points his nose at the bread basket so I say, "OK then, wait nice" and he scoots back and sits while I open the bag and get him a slice of bread. That's NILIF. After about two days of this, any time I am in the kitchen around bed time he automatically scoots out of the way and sits. He gets a slice of bread. It shouldn't be a struggle or a long process. The dog ultimately gets what he wants, and I can maneuver the kitchen without him jumping on counters and barking.

Same thing goes for feeding their big meal. I feed everyone in a row outside. Every day each dog gets the same dish as before in the same spot. Now when I open the door with the bowls, they come over in the order they are always served, stand in the same spot they always eat in, and there are no fights or dogs jumping on me and pushing me for food.

It's about establishing a routine and clear expectations. That goes for both the human and the dog.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Germanshepherdlova

I read it a couple years ago and got it at a library a couple cities away from mine-but when I get around to it I am going to go back there and try to find it and then I will let you know the name and author because I don't remember. I know me and my husband tried it but didn't get very far with it.

Probably because of the "don't feed" if he doesn't sit.

Again, if you feed kibble, just use the kibbles itself to train your dog. It's the fastest way for them to learn. Don't just put the whole bowl down. Have them work for a handfull for kibble first and then put the food down.

Sometimes they have to work for their entire bowl of kibbles. Some call it extreme but that way I can regulate the food that's going in and use the special stuff for the training itself. With a food driven dog, it's perfect.

[Germanshepherdlova]

Originally Posted by selzer

My dogs get their morning meal outside. And occasionally, if they are being nutty, I will have them wait or sit before I give them their dish of food. Bear was being particularly amped about getting her food one day, so I wanted her to sit before opening her kennel. She would not. It was not a matter of refusing to do what I wanted, but more an I'm so excited my brain isn't working right now.

I stood there and waited it out. I refused to open the gate until her bottom was touching the ground. And it did.

As far as my dogs training I can put their food or treat down and put them in sit and leave the room and come back and they won't move toward their food until I give them the command. But this training wasn't done through NILIF.

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

Probably because of the "don't feed" if he doesn't sit.

Again, if you feed kibble, just use the kibbles itself to train your dog. It's the fastest way for them to learn. Don't just put the whole bowl down. Have them work for a handfull for kibble first and then put the food down.

Yeah this works really well because they're already hungry. I like to use this technique with the little baby puppies. Take the first handful or two and use it to lure them into a "sit" and "down". Then, once their brain is engaged and they're working with the idea that food comes from pleasing you and from working, go ahead and put the bowl down.