Using the E-collar

[Zisso]

I shouldn't have used that word in the sense that I did. What I should have said I guess is that he is fearful of the vibe and runs away. I was just reading Lou's articles again. Will read them every morning before we go out to train to keep it all fresh in my mind

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Zisso

I am just using the E collar for stuff around the house at the moment. I figure if my male is trying to shut down(run and hide) with a level 15 vibe he would do the same with a shock wouldn't he?

Here is an example: I tossed the toy and he started to bring it back. Giving him praise all the way. He is great about bringing the toy back. Once I get it back, he starts jumping up to try to steal it away. I tell him no once and bump him away but he does it again. So I tell him no with a vibe. He runs into the kennel-avoidance. The whole point of the exercise was to stop the jumping when I have the toy. Each time he ran to hide(I shut the kennel gate, so next time he found his travel crate opened in the shed) I would bring him back.

Right there, I don't know if I should be praising when I bring him back? For this time, I told him 'come' as I was bringing him back. I don't want to do something to shut him down and fear that the shock would do that in such a way that he might not recover since he is this bad with a vibe.

Nope, no correlation. My female was horrified by the vibe at first where my male was just curious as to what was buzzing on his neck. Took weeks of just working vibe and treating to *make* it a positive marker for my female. No training involved, just lots of vibe->treat, vibe->treat. Now when it vibes she expects payment once services are rendered. She takes much higher stim than my male does... and shrugs it off. My male works around 8 in lower drive OB, rarely more than ~25 in protection (once went to 36 because he was getting way too nutty and in fight drive, and electric seems the only thing that can calm him.. voice, prong, hands, etc all make it worse). Female needs ~16 in OB, sometimes as high as ~50 in protection to even realize I'm there.

You're using the vibe as a negative thing... a warning that worse is to come, right? I use it as a positive marker. Stim is my negative.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Zisso

I shouldn't have used that word in the sense that I did. What I should have said I guess is that he is fearful of the vibe and runs away. I was just reading Lou's articles again. Will read them every morning before we go out to train to keep it all fresh in my mind

Decide what you want the vibe to be first.. many use it as a warning, some as a recall. Not my preference. For me its a positive marker. That way, I can both encourage or discourage behavior at a distance and in an impersonal way.

[Zisso]

You're using the vibe as a negative thing... a warning that worse is to come, right? I use it as a positive marker. Stim is my negative.

Not really because I have never ever used the stim at all. The only thing I have used is the vibe. I don't know how they could possibly know worse is to come when they have never felt the stim.

I will try to use it as a positive marker from now on. I am so hesitant to use the stim at all on my boy who wants to run and hide every time he feels it vibe. I am afraid that if I try to use the vibe as a positive with him, like 'vibe-treat' that he won't take the treat, because he will try to run off before he has the chance to even try to take it. Even if I use a short leash, his first reaction is to run as soon as he feels the vibe. So say I have a treat, ask him to sit and he doesn't...so he doesn't her the treat. The next time I give him the command, should I hold him in place with the leash & stim him to get compliance and then vibe him as he gets the treat?

My female is totally different-she pays attention and performs beautifully when she has the collar on. Period. Once in awhile she will not release a toy and might see me reaching in my pocket for the remote, then instantly drops the toy. But her focus is beautiful in heel position and she pays attention to staying in heel position which was a problem before.