Shouldn't dog training be a dictatorship?

[MaggieRoseLee]

Typical Undersirable Behaviour - YouTube

Typical Undersirable Behaviour - YouTube

[selzer]

Oh, I dunno. I prefer my dogs to do what I want because they want to. Not because I am going to eat them if they do not. If the dog knows what you want them to do, understands your command, and the dog wants to please you, because you have made it fun, provided praise and treats, that is not a dictatorship, even if you get excellent results.

If you have to you a harsh, angry tone to ensure that your does exactly what you want them to do when you want them to do it, and they comply because they are fearful of you, which is NOT respect, that is a dictatorship.

So, no, I don't think training should be a dictatorship. I guess I prefer something like expected cooperation.

[holland]

Thats what i took that she was saying from the video-that good training is the dog wanting to do it for you and the dog offers the behaviors

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by holland

Thats what i took that she was saying from the video-that good training is the dog wanting to do it for you and the dog offers the behaviors

If you listen closely, at the end she's saying the puppy doesn't get a treat when she offers a behavior, in this case she sat. The reason she doesn't get a treat is because she wasn't asked to sit. The Amichien Bonding method of training is about teaching a dog that the human is in control, not the dog.

[nitemares]

Originally Posted by holland

Thats what i took that she was saying from the video-that good training is the dog wanting to do it for you and the dog offers the behaviors

.... never mind, misunderstood your post

[cliffson1]

Dogs are not people and the more effective trainers clearly understand this. They are not motivated by the same reasoning norms that we process. They are more reliant on drives for basis of behavoir given, than actual reasoning and feelings. That's not to say they don't reason or have feelings,(you always have the person that will take your comment to extremes), but the best results in dog/animal training comes from those that are understanding of primary and secondary motivators and keep the training in the dog's world.

[selzer]

I agree not to give a dog a treat for sitting if you did not ask for the sit. If you did that, you are basically training a dog to solicit treats by coming up to you, presenting his body, and assuming the sit position.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by selzer

I agree not to give a dog a treat for sitting if you did not ask for the sit. If you did that, you are basically training a dog to solicit treats by coming up to you, presenting his body, and assuming the sit position.

Exactly! It means the dog is telling you what to do instead of the other way around.

[Zahnburg]

I don't know about a dictatorship, but I certainly look at training a bit differently. To me a dog must understand that he must follow my command, there is no other choice for the dog. The dog most certainly can enjoy following my commands and wants to follow the command but a command is just that, a command, not a request. There is simply no other alternative for the dog but to follow it.
Obviously, with a pup of the age in the video it is about teaching not training. However, once a dog reaches an age for training then, to me, there can be no choice except to follow the command.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by selzer

I agree not to give a dog a treat for sitting if you did not ask for the sit. If you did that, you are basically training a dog to solicit treats by coming up to you, presenting his body, and assuming the sit position.

I don't know if that is such a bad thing.

Vinca has finally figured out that stopping whatever else she is doing and lying down when I say "platz" means she will get something she wants. She is now offering platz when she wants something. I figure that lying down is a reasonably good default behavior for a dog that wants something, as opposed to say, jumping up, barking, running around in circles, etc. So if she lies down in front of the door, I tend to open it.