"Cradle and Massage"

[Holmeshx2]

Originally Posted by AbbyK9

That's quite different from what the OP described, though, especially considering that these methods linked above are to be introduced to a young puppy ... not a 6 month old. And even Ian Dunbar doesn't recommend forcibly rolling the puppy onto its back and pinning it down until it relaxes.

this is done with great force if the dog doesn't happily do it which I dont know many dogs who will gladly flip into such a vulverable position out in a very public place with tons of stuff going on strangers walking past you etc..

[sharkey19]

Originally Posted by robk

Abbyk9; He is 6 months old. This was not a formal training class but sort of turned into one. I have not hired this person yet. We ran into her at a park when she was finishing up a behavior class and she she observed my dogs reaction to seeing other dogs. Its hard to describe what he does but it is a very aggressive excited barking. We used redirection with a ball to change his focus from the other dogs which worked somewhat. During the time we spent talking to her she said that to her it looked like the dog was in charge not us. She said we needed to re establish ourselves as being the boss and offered to show us a technique called "cradle and massage". She had another handler demonstrate it with her dog and it looked very pleasurable to her dog. However when she asked be to try it with my dog it turned into quite a struggle. The dog finally submitted and relaxed at which point I released the dog. I did not argue with her about whether I agreed or not with the technique. I just went along with it and decided to do some more research to see what others thought about it.

I think this is a very old style of training which is not really ideal anymore. I would go to another trainer. I don't think any trainer should jump straight to that type of technique without having tried other things. Nothing is a quick fix.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Holmeshx2

also for the record this "cradle and massage" technique is where you sit on the ground take the dog in your lap the dogs chest should be against your stomach with them laying on their side on your lap front legs around one side of you back legs on the other and you lean over the top of them and pin them in your lap basically and physical restrain them until they quit struggling.

No, that is definitely different than what Ian Dunbar recommends, and what we did in class. You do start with a puppy, and their back is supported against your chest. Here is Halo with me in class:

[robk]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Holmeshx2, it sounds like you have run across her as well. You are right in a couple of observations. First of all the dogs that I saw her working with were nothing like my dog, they were very laid back looking. 2nd. the dog that she had a handler demonstrate it on was a younger pup. When we did it, it did not go so well because my boy is much bigger and very determined not to be held down. I am not a dog trainer so I just went along with it and decided to do some more research before I tried anything like that again.

[Good_Karma]

This trainer is giving Cradle and Massage a bad name. It has NOTHING to do with establishing dominance. And it is NOT meant for a puppy that old, it's meant for a very young puppy.

[Holmeshx2]

yes she wanted us to do it with Jinx at 6 months old to force her to be calm before SAR because she would get super worked up to work. She leaks drive like crazy and apparently this was gonna work. Don't listen to her I know exactly who u are talking to and while I was attempting to use her for SAR training I realized she was full of it on that too and dropped she doesnt train the handlers doesnt get any dogs certified and still brings them out to searches and tries to play the loophole of they are in training and covered under her certification. Its all a joke, dogs she has as top dogs on her teams could never certify (the top one is dog aggressive) and never spent a single moment working on navigation skills or anything for the handlers

Debbie that is definitely not it Jinx was over 50 lbs and she had me trying to do that then was not happy when I sat on the ground and had jinx in my lap but just cuddled her lol. With this position the dogs side and part of its back should be on your legs with its legs angled up behind your back so they arent on the ground