Is this desired in PPD?

[DTS]

this guy "trains" PPD in my area. im far from an expert on this, but was looking at his webiste because he advertises in the paper and on a free ad website (which to me is a red flag). i want to put some videos up of him with some of the dogs he is training. and from my view point he trains some the dog in some situations to attack without command. In this situations on these videos okay to do this? like i said i am no expert but i was very turned off by these videos? is any of these methods accurate? and in some of the videos if you turn the volume way up you can here the handler call the dog off and the dog doesn't imediately come off..
can some one direct me what is wrong and or right in these videos?
http://youtu.be/uJy4Z-PuyI0

http://youtu.be/EOAQTobjzrM


http://youtu.be/71NUDnHb1hI

http://youtu.be/EvLWPWu0ILY
in this last video this is a pup being trained

any thoughts or comments?

[DFrost]

I don't agree with the actions of the dog in the second video (the guy charging yelling) unless the handler told the dog to bite. The other videos are exactly as we teach some PSD's In my program, the basic rule is; the dog can only bite on two occasions;

1. When the handler commands the dog to engage

2. When the handler is attacked.

Other than that, the dog, while certainly being more attentive to a situation should not engage. It's often questionable how a dog will react to a situation in the 2nd video, where a person approaches threatening etc. As for the agitation of the pup, I don't see anything particularly wrong. There wasn't any pressure and it appeared to be a puppy sleeve.

DFrost

[BlackGSD]

I can't watch the videos on my phone. But I agree with DFrost o on both counts.

If the handler is attacked, the dog should bite with no command. What if the handler were grabbed from behind and their mouth covered? A dog that will ONLY attack "on command" would be worthless.

[carmspack]

the very first video the dog reminds me of a Donovan Pinscher.
All the other exercises , including the "watch my back" video 2 are what is trained for Ring sports, Campagne .
All the dogs seemed to have good self control when asked to out. (as far as I could see) .
Classic case is what I was told by Swedish military k9 officer about a GSD that was awarded Canine of the Year because he protected his unconscious handler from out of control rioting crowds in a stadium , soccer hooligans.
That was a Jack Steiglerhof son - and the handler had applied to get permission to breed to this male -- which required a thorough evaluation of the value of the female -- unfortunately , as I had a deposit down, the female did not conceive .
I have a dog , a Kilo son, who was nominated for a Purina award of Fame, a police service dog with the OPP , who prevented further harm to his handler from a nasty situation. The handler injured and unconscious , the dog injured. The incident was the tracking down of an escapee , who , unbeknownest to officials had been able to communicate with his bad friends and had two lying in ambush , one in the trees .
This was written about in one of the Dogs in Canada Annual magazines .
There are situations where the dog has to make a judgement call and act independent of command.

Carmen

[W.Oliver]

I have spent a week training with John and have been the Decoy for his dog that appears in the first video. It is not a Donovan Pinscher but rather a custom creation that includes several breeds over a couple of generations...it is a small, but extremely serious dog that hits center mass.

John is a "salt of the earth" kind of guy that trains serious dogs....I would train with him again. DTS, you must be in Florida?

[carmspack]

W.Oliver , with respect , the Donovan Pinscher is exactly that , a custom creation , several breeds, several generations , extremely serious , hits centre mass .
I had several conversations with Dominick Donovan oh so many years ago, and I do know the mixtures used in his breed , the reasons for its development , and do know that a GSD was used later on in the mix to bring in something specific.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[W.Oliver]

My apologies in usurping your authority....I was under the impression the Donovan Pinscher was specific to Mr. Donovan's work and the dog type he developed. The dog in question, although similar in development with the exception of potential differences in the base breeds involved...was breed by John and is his "Heinz 57" designer dog.....vis a vis, not a Donovan Pincher....with all due respect to Mr. Donovan's work.

Let me know if I can clarify any further?

[DTS]

Thank you for all of the insight. I want to lean as much as I can and now the confusion is cleared up for me on why the dogs are being trained this way.

[robk]

I like what I see in these videos. Especially the first one.