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Old 02-25-2014, 07:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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With previous dogs we always taught "stay". We could leave the gate open in the back yard or the front door open and give the "stay" command and never have a problem with the dog crossing the threshold. We could leave the gate open all day, or my wife could leave the front door open while unloading groceries from the car.

Now a decade later we are training a new pup. We are going through formal training for the first time ever. This is a new concept in training from what we have read through the "decades". Let's just call it new style of training. Our trainer has a really good balance of +P and -P in my opinion. However, she says there is no more "stay". You put them in a down, climb or sit and they should stay there until released or "Free". I get it, my wife is having a little more trouble with it. Not that she doesn't agree....

How do you teach them not to walk out the door or gate if you don't necessarily want them in a sit, down or climb but simply don't want them to bolt out if the door or gate is open? Should we teach "stay" anyway? How do you do this?

Our pup is doing so well. He graduated puppy class with flying colors, he is relatively well behaved for his age at 16 weeks this thursday. We are very proud of him and are trying to stay two steps ahead to ward off bad behavior. He does extremely well with a structured training session, he has trouble without his treats or over the top distractions/excitement. We are getting there but this is going to become a problem eventually and I'm just trying to get ahead of it.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Shut the gate on them if they try going out without being told to go ahead or get in or whatever. Do that at every door or gate.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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when you didnt teach a release word, how did your dog know when he could move again? did he just decide for himself?

imo a dog should sit at every door, gate, car anyways. i never open any door for my dog unless he sits. he doesnt have to be told. its a given he sits at every door.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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With +R you should always provide an alternative - don't go there, but what is instead? Sitting or lying down? Come on, it is hardly stimulating. Keep your gate open, recall your dog every time he sees something interesting through, take him to the gate on loose leash yourself straight away walking slowly, step out yourself first and go for a short walk around. It works as "If you want that - you should do this". At the beginning of training you should achieve your dog calling you to come with him to the gate by jumping and hitting you slightly. You don't have to go out if you don't feel like it, just poke your head out and let your dog do the same. If your dog barks - it's just fine, train him to bark on command while looking through the gate. Train him "Quiet " after, "voice"-"quiet" in repetition. That is rewarding. Your dog learns to stay inside only because you don't go there. "Stay" works only because you call him out after 1-2-3-30 minutes and reward with a walk.
If your pup shows such a success now - most likely he will remain like this all his life. My Lucy is a "walking goodness", it never took longer than one day to learn a new command, she is three years now and learns like a five months old puppy. Her last achievement - to search a buildind site for the object with one of smells she knows while we are waiting at the entrance. And, if you might guessed, the principles of training are similar - "you can get what you want if you do this". The NILIF gets to the core of the dog's brain, it was the greatest treasure I ever found.But you know ...We are humans, we cannot be satisfied, we always want something we don't have. Lucy is not a sports dog.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I am assuming that the OP would give the stay command and it meant the dog could go about its business but not go through the door or gate. Not be completely still.

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Old 02-25-2014, 08:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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well then just teach "stay" just like you taught it to your other dog. if stay to you means dont cross an invisible line then teach it to mean that. just dont sit,stay or down,stay. stay is its own command.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ks View Post
However, she says there is no more "stay". You put them in a down, climb or sit and they should stay there until released or "Free".
A light bulb came on in my head today about this as we were training in the backyard. I put him in a "sit" and realized that he wasn't going to move until I released him. So I sprinted away from him without giving "stay", and he just waited for the next command.

Now I'm not sure when to use stay lol.


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Old 02-25-2014, 08:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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A light bulb came on in my head today about this as we were training in the backyard. I put him in a "sit" and realized that he wasn't going to move until I released him. So I sprinted away from him without giving "stay", and he just waited for the next command.

Now I'm not sure when to use stay lol.


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Use "wait". Not "stay" if the dog is not in a specific command. Personally I don't use "stay". If I tell my dog to "sit" he should stay sitting until I tell him otherwise. But wait can be general command telling a dog to not cross over a threshold, but still allowed to move about behind said threshold.


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Old 02-25-2014, 09:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Use "wait". Not "stay" if the dog is not in a specific command. Personally I don't use "stay". If I tell my dog to "sit" he should stay sitting until I tell him otherwise. But wait can be general command telling a dog to not cross over a threshold, but still allowed to move about behind said threshold.


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Thanks, this is what I've been thinking. He's been trying to tell me this for some time now, because when I say "stay" after another command, I get the head tilt.

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Old 02-25-2014, 10:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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For my dogs "stay" has always meant "stay there, where I put you, until I return to you and release you or give another command".

"wait" means wait there until I give you another command, which might come from a distance i.e I might call the dog to me, get them to sit / down or stand, or release them altogether.

The dogs learn the difference.. If I want to go out of the gate without the dogs, I'll say "wait", at which point they will stop, one I'm through I'll release them with a "go on then" (my standard command for do what you want). If I want them to come through the gate I'll say "sit", then call them through once I'm through..
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