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bibaxt 01-11-2014 02:04 PM

Advice requested (2 eleven wk old pups, need training advice)
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Ok, I've always been a dog person. I have throughout my life mostly had rescue dogs of undetermined breed. They have all been loved and well behaved and trained. Some admittedly better then others. I already had four dogs that live in my house, my father lives with me and he has a French bull dog, we have a roommate who has a stubby tail Australian cattle dog, I have a min pin, chi mix and a what we assume is is chow/collie mix. A friend of mine had a rescue GSD male, he was a beautiful dog who was actually AKC papered, but had sadly been very neglected and starved and was untrained/un socialized. She never should have taken him being as she had small children, she also had a young female GSD. So we all know what happened next, Of course she bred them. After the breeding her male broke through the dog run fence and severely attacked her youngest child. The child lived, though she was very badly injured. The dog was put down. She lives a state away from me and the week before Christmas I went to visit, I feel in love with two of the pups and I brought them home with me. I have done a ton of reading about the breed, a ton. I've talked to our vet at length about the differences between these puppies and the other dogs I have. I am aware they will need training above and beyond what I have done with my other dogs. And excessive Exercise, which isn't a problem because I run and other then the cattle dog the others are all too old to run with me anymore. The puppies are now 11 weeks old and here at home we have already started working on basic obedience but I know we need to start stepping things up. I've been in contact with a local schutzhund group and I'm planning on going out and checking that out. But here are my questions for the group.
What do I look for in a trainer? What should I avoid? Any other general advice you think I should know?
IMO my pups are stunningly beautiful, but I know I'm biased. There names are Rudolph and Adolph ( and no there is no association to hitler) I choose the names because of what they mean in german. I am attaching a few pictures of them.
This is Rudolph
Attachment 162978
This is Adolph
Attachment 162986

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bibaxt 01-11-2014 02:11 PM

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e.rigby 01-11-2014 03:13 PM

They are both VERY cute. However, I would suggest you pick just one to keep. You now have two puppies from a breeding where (at the very least) the male was somewhat unstable and quite aggressive. If even one of your puppies has a similar temperament (as it can be a genetic link) you'll have a lot of training and behavior modification coming up... having two puppies that are going to need so much time and attention right now is asking for trouble. You would be much more capable of providing 100% (time and effort) to one puppy than trying to split that among two.

Anyway, I've trained dogs for years, and raised more than my fair share of puppies... I would never (even with my experience) take on two at once. So my only real advice is to reconsider trying to raise two.

Liz&Anna 01-11-2014 03:17 PM

They are very very beautiful- knowing the temperament of the father I would be SURE to socialize ASAP, as far as a trainer I to have just picked out my OB trainer, I had been to see at least 4 different ones before I found "the one" ask them to allow you to watch them work, see how they handle dogs and puppies (see if they use force or treats or toys) see how the older students act (super high drive?? Or lower drive/confident) and think about exactly what you want. Ask the trainer if you can see there dog. Some trainers will increase prey drive and make a dog super super high energy (which I kind of like) and some will calm a dog if that makes sense.

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Nigel 01-11-2014 03:25 PM

Not my place to say what you are capable of, but it sounds like your plate is full. Raising litter mates is doable, I have two well behaved female litter mates, (BYB too), however both parents have known good temperaments. I would be concerned with how much genetic influence from the "dad" was passed onto the pups.

mcdanfam 01-11-2014 03:41 PM

After going to three different trainers, I would suggest finding someone that specializes in the breed or working line dogs for sure. I would avoid anyone who says you have to be super firm with shepherd at least from the puppy stage...our first snatched the leash from my daughter and over corrected our male...we had to work a while to get him over the fear of trainers. It could have been avoided. She also kept telling us out 3 month old pups were bully breed and had to be dealt with differently....she had a couple of decades as a trainer....we left and did not return to her class....the second was great but did basic stuff, she did not have a bias against any breed. She just did not offer the detailed and extended training for working line dogs....having ours for almost a year...we have found they LOVE to work....they LIVE AND BREATHE to work. The last trainer owns 5 and works working line dogs. He has been a godsend. He challenges them and they love it...biggest difference! They get so excited when we pull in to his place...(1 hour from our home) long drive but worth it for what we all get from it! We did get two puppy's, and don't regret it....BUT....BUT....we have four of us in the family...2 adults, 2 teens...we all attending training every week, since they were 3 months old. We can't miss, if we do, the dogs show their boredom. I am also a stay at home mom....! So while the kids are in school....I work and spend time with them. Constantly...I split the time between them so they get one on one and develop their own personality. It worked they are polar opposite. Some days my husband takes one or the other to the office...and we switch off. It takes a lot of work and effort to raise two, had we had a choice we would only have one at a time, but both girls will be running and training for different sports and 1 dog could never handle running with each child every day...these dogs were for companion running and to later be protection dogs for future training for our daughters when running alone....we had to make the time and energy but even being a stay at home mom....I really have to push myself to train, run them tired, play and take care of them. It is all day, especially when they hit different stages that take a lot more energy! Different stages of growth and maturity....they need double the mental exercise, double the play time, double the attention! The different stages are mentally draining and physically draining. Their were times we thought miles would never slow down again...Millie's phases last a couple of days....miles does great for months, then bammmm....3-4 weeks of non stop never ending ENERGY! Luckily....we divide and conquer here...and have teens that can handle and have been to all the training sessions gives us a little better base for two dogs. With everyone training and using the same method, the structure and commands are very consistent which they respond well to. I have also learned they want to be with their pack....a lot....all the time....rarely separated....that was the biggest thing to adjust to...every time I get shoes...they sit by the door leading to the garage...they love the car...just dropping kids at school they are ready to go... Good luck on your pups. They are soooo cute! PS...I would recommend getting lots of puzzles, games that challenge the brain...rainy days will be murder....

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mcdanfam 01-11-2014 03:49 PM

The 3rd trainer focused on positive training, rewards and making it fun so the dogs wanted to learn and work. He constantly changes things up.
We have been going to him since they were about 5 months old....just in two weeks we saw huge differences. Huge. He seems to really know the need of any working dog and how to make them love to work.
Good luck!

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llombardo 01-11-2014 05:18 PM

Your going to be busy. I don't have litter mates , but I do have 3 dogs under 2.5 years old, they are pretty close in age and I manage. In the past I have had two puppies that were the same age, but different breeds, it was hard. Back then I didn't do any obedience classes with them and that can make a world of difference. You will have to train the separately on their own and I would also do some obedience with them together. I'm not 100 percent convinced that aggressiveness is 100 percent genetic. When we were younger we went to a farm to get a puppy, a St. Bernard/German Shepherd, mom was sweet(St Bernard) and dad (German Shepherd) was vicious, we couldn't go near him. The puppy was never aggressive and was a wonderful dog.

MaggieRoseLee 01-11-2014 07:51 PM

Make sure get to really read thru - - >

Good luck!

bibaxt 01-11-2014 08:41 PM

I was initially against getting even one pup from this liter because of the sire. But I understand a few things about him that I may not have properly conveyed before. Even after he came to my friend as a rescue, she didn't treat him properly. Mostly due to misunderstanding what she was taking on. He was never allowed around the kids. He was never introduced into the family. He lived alone, untrained and unchallenged in a fenced in 16x20 yard. Did she feed him? Yes. Love him? Perhaps. But was he ever in his life treated right? Learning what i have just because of my little guys I firmly say that no, he never was. The problem with him was created by the humans not by his breeding. My 19 year old son and myself switch which pups we train daily. They are never kenneled just to get them out of the way. They are with us all day, even if it's just sleeping under the kitchen table while I'm cooking. They have been socialized with people and other dogs, not just my own. They go to work with me. Because my job rocks like that. I know, I'm fully aware that I'm I've taken on a HUGE challenge with two of them. Getting rid of either is not an option. Our family as a whole lives them already.

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