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5 German Shepherd pack walk

16K views 143 replies 49 participants last post by  Dainerra 
#1 ·
And to think its taken me 8 1/2 months to get that far with one dog.
 
#36 ·
Gotta agree that the dogs don't seem to be having any fun at all in the OP. What really clinched it for me was at 4:20 when a passerby said 'hi' to a dog that happened to look up at her. Upon hearing her voice the poor thing immediately skittered away from her and back into position. I appreciate control but agree with Baillif, at what price?
 
#43 ·
Just out of curiosity, for those that like to imagine: how would the pack walk dogs react to a mugger? Don't say it can't happen because I've been threatened while walking my GSD - the drugs these days are weird indeed, lol.

But seriously, I hate the way these dogs are walking! I like offleash walking, but I want my dog to be aware of the surroundings. I want my dog to be about 12" to 18" away from me too - that video gave me claustrophobia.
 
#45 ·
Sad to see these dogs under this much stress. Years ago this would have been normal for most trainers. Things are different now for the trainers that use their brains instead of taking the easy road.

You can make a dog avoid anything with an e-collar... BUT If you take the same dogs, same tools, but add some collar imprinting, which teaches the dog how to turn the stim off, and work at much lower stim levels, you have the same end result with the dogs having much less stress and conflict.

You can use the collar to communicate with the dogs and not deliver harsh punishments.

David Winners
 
#47 ·
The walk is for the owner not the dogs. This guy is from my home town and his dogs are always so anxious -in avoidance. not impressed plays up the dominance theory too much. I've tried to talk to him about his breedings and the dog's pedigrees health tests titles ect and let's just say it was a quick conversation....
 
#49 ·
I like it, did the same thing with my golden, she does walk without leash in fron of me and respose to verbal and hands control. She was very cooperative and never used any form of pressure to train her, except for willing participation and treats. I do put her on the leash if unknown dogs are approching and are on the leash to minimize risks. Now I have GS femal puppy (11 months) she does follow with footsteps on my older dog and walk without leash ( I put her on the leash when other dogs are approaching), I would not say I would be comfy with lettting her go on full urban environment yet but once she is mature, I think I can do the same. She is very focused on us and off-leash parks always sticks to us and waits for verbar confirmation that she can run and play with other dogs.
 
#51 ·
Hmmm, I didn't enjoy this video at all. I put e-collars on my dogs when we ride through farms with stock, I don't imagine I need them now, but I do it for my peace of mind. It's been so long since either of them had the collar used on them, that I can't remember it, and even in the beginning it was very infrequent.
My dogs don't behave any differently when wearing the collars than when they're not.. These dogs seem a little too "flat" in their demeanour for my liking.. Makes me wonder how often they have been shocked and at what setting..
 
#52 ·
SQUIRREL! :D

I didn't think the dogs were enjoying themselves very much.

I don't know about anyone else, but I want my dog looking around and paying attention to the environment.

Lisl can walk just fine and listen to commands without looking at me 100% of the time. And she can walk off lead without a shock collar too.
 
#55 ·
I don't get this forum sometimes.
We have so many threads on ecollars and how they are an effective tool yet here we have 5 dogs doing something most can only dream of and it is not as credible cause it is via an ecollar.
You can't have it both ways......it is either just another tool or dogs trained via them are less deserving of admiration. Looking at the trainers info this is not just some lacky who wishes to make his dogs miserable.
I was impressed by the video.....kudos to him.
 
#63 ·
There are methods of training with any tool that can be very negative. Those dogs do not look comfortable in that video. It appears that they are swamped next to their owner out of fear of taking a wrong step, and people can and do train with various tools for this result. It is not the tool, it is the training and the result we are critical of.

If we can walk one dog who is comfortable, then we are doing better than this yayhoo. Sorry. Who cares if you can walk five of them if you have to hobble them to do it. You don't need to use a physical hobble to hobble a dog. You can use a training method/tool. I would be embarrassed if those were my dogs.

I do not walk five at a time. I can walk one at a time off lead. I have one that will look at my face and turn with me and pay close attention to everything I do. I did not aim for that. In fact, I did not realize it was actually happening until I saw the stream of photos the professional photographer at the show took. But she was happy, and engaged, off lead, and doing her thing. Not like these dogs.

These are a working breed with a brain. To herd sheep, or do police/military work, which the breed was developed/designed for, the dog has to have some independence, it has to make decisions. It should NEVER look like it will be splattered if it puts a toe out of line. To guide a blind person, the dog must be able to use its judgement and disobey its owner in some circumstances. Those dogs are simply not capable of that. And that is what is wrong with that video. Yuck.
 
#56 ·
Look at the body language of the dogs. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are obeying out of fear and not because they are enjoying a walk with him.

I'm sure ecollars have their place. It just looks like they've been misused in this case. I wouldn't let him near Gretchen.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Look at the environment they being walked in.......they are not out in the park or a quiet trail or running along in the country side behind a bike. They are in a very busy street......people around, cars whizzing past....to me they are not going to appear overly outgoing.....cautious comes to mind.
I think you are reading way too much into it......
Maybe they just know that they need to be at full attention as it is such a busy place.
 
#58 · (Edited)
went to the facebook page and there is an entry which shows a young boy in a pen with 10 pups (waiting for their forever home) , and a video of a young pup kept back for training . The pups with the boy , they seem disconnected too. They should be crawling over the boy , pulling his shoe laces , mugging him. Instead there is one that remains with him and the others all have that repressed lifeless , dispirited , resigned , squashed look. A pup that age should have energy and confidence beaming out of its eyes .

--- "Look at the environment they being walked in.......they are not out in the park or a quiet trail or running along in the country side behind a bike. They are in a very busy street......people around, cars whizzing past....to me they are not going to appear overly outgoing.....cautious comes to mind."


to me that was not a very busy street, busy time of day , busy time of season -- the dogs look worried .

The GSD as a breed , by its character, is not a "pack" dog like the hounds would be . They are meant to have a special relationship , one on one with the master. Even if you had multiple dogs , you have to make time to give them treatment and consideration as if they were the only dog in the world. One on one.
 
#59 · (Edited)
We can agree to disagree.......

Seems a shame to criticise someone who is out there "impressing" the general public with such a display.
I looked at his facebook page too and there were many photos of him out in public with dogs being good ambassadors of the breed........but no...still not good enough it would appear.
 
#62 · (Edited)
I was very much impressed on how the dogs were so obedient!

But now that everyone has pointed it out there seems to be two different kinds of heels out there.

I've been meaning to ask why is there a heel like that, that is seen in the first video, where the dogs pad obediently by their master's side or behind, staring straight ahead. This is the kind of heel I usually see in real life.

Then there's the heel I have been seeing in those videos where the dogs are doing the IPO kind's of exercises, where they are bouncing and looking straight up at their masters, some are kind of drooling on their master's legs and it looks funny. :p

EDIT: I only ever taught my previous dog a very loose heel, as I never really needed to teach my dog something like that before. It was more of a "stay close".
 
#64 ·
there is alot of negative controversary surrounding this guy, it may look good in public but there's a whole lot more going on that would make me "run" from this person..
 
#65 ·
Some of those dogs seem too scared to even look up. Yikes!

With that said how many of you putting this guy down can walk your dog without leash down a busy street and then cross the road? His methods are harsh but at least those dogs won't be bolting after any squirrels!

You can see both the positive and negative effects of an Ecollar in the video.
 
#70 · (Edited)
Yeah.....I don't know about his breeding practices. I am just commenting on the video.
The one simba405 put up the dogs look much more upbeat and aren't even wearing collars.....different environment. All those people he met along the way got a really positive picture of the GSD.....that is not a bad thing......better than a dog jumping, lunging, barking and acting out which how many people see this breed.
I don't have time to Google the crap out of this guy......I could probably find many people bagging him and just as many defending him.......it is the internet afterall ;) ....his dogs are nice.......
 
#79 ·
The thing is it is not. It was not about E-collars, it was about using aversive methods to have dogs glue themselves to you, and it is not impressive to jump over your dog -- that is just the point. His videos look impressive to someone who has never done it, but it isn't all that impressive at all.

Put your dog in a down. Tell it STAY! Run up and hop over it. Praise the dog. Pat yourself on the back. Easy-peasy. If your dog trusts you not to hurt it, or if your dog is scared to death not to break its stay, you won't have any problem with the trick.
 
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