Are "pop-release" corrections safe?

rad10 · 03-12-2013, 03:48 PM

So I started puppy class and they advocate the pop-release correction with a flat collar...i.e. giving slack on the leash, pulling back abruptly, then slacking again.
Prior to this I'd been using noise/scruff grabs as corrections which is what the breeder told me to do as that's how the dog's mom's say "no". I've heard of (and done) these corrections with prong collars on other dogs, but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around them with a flat collar... Isn't that just essentially hitting the dog in the front of their neck? Isn't that going to cause damage? Or am I totally underestimating how tough their necks are...

WVGSD · 03-12-2013, 04:03 PM

If you have a young puppy, I would not be doing pop/release corrections at all. I would be using positive reinforcement/praise and food motivation for a very young puppy.

mycobraracr · 03-12-2013, 04:58 PM

Yes you're correct on the damage thought. That's why prongs are so nice, you don't have to use as much force. That being said I would not use these techniques on a puppy at all. Puppies need all positive fun training. If your trainer is still advocating that, I might look into another trainer.

martemchik · 03-12-2013, 05:03 PM

It really depends on the dog. A prong is more effective in making the correction quicker and more exact, and also gets through to many dogs. A flat collar has the same effectiveness but you need a softer or more handler sensitive dog that doesn't really have a mind of its own. Many people have trained with just a flat collar using positive reinforcement or even some corrections, really depends on the dog.

Good_Karma · 03-12-2013, 05:35 PM

I found leash pops to be useless. They do nothing to teach the dog what you want, they only interrupt a behavior. There are kinder ways of doing that, especially on a puppy.

**Cassidy's Mom** · 03-12-2013, 06:01 PM

How old is your puppy? In a puppy class the question shouldn't be whether one type of correction is safer than another, it should be why are you using corrections to train new behaviors with a young puppy.

**Cassidy's Mom** · 03-12-2013, 06:09 PM

I just checked your earlier posts and it looks like this is a 13/14 week old puppy? Wow. I definitely wouldn't be in a class that used leash corrections on a puppy that young.

Where do you live? Are there other options for classes near you?

rad10 · 03-12-2013, 08:51 PM

Thanks for the feedback, guys.
I'm not using them, I was kind of surprised that they were. Yes, he's 13 weeks today, actually. The only time I have is when he tries to run out into the street on walks to chase the cars (yes.. we've graduated from "what are those big scary things!" to "ooh, can I play with them?!" *sigh*). Personally I don't think a puppy that young needs corrections during training unless they're doing something that's going to endanger his/her life, but from a more general curiosity standpoint I was wondering if they were even safe at all, even on older dogs.

I'm near Peoria, IL. I know of one other training place nearby, but I had opted for this one because it was closer and my vet recommended it more (I didn't know anyone else in the area with dogs to ask). So far, I'm not impressed and probably won't be back for obedience, but it's good socialization for him if nothing else.

Also (I'm not thinking about it any time soon, but just to keep in the back of my mind..) when is a reasonable age to switch to a prong for training? I'm hoping I won't have to - trying to go the positive reinforcement route - but he's already a very confident, stubborn, and strong willed pup and he's quickly going to be much stronger than I am.

onyx'girl · 03-12-2013, 08:56 PM

Usually prongs are introduced at around 6-8 months...some dogs never need a prong. Some dogs shouldn't wear a prong if the prong ramps up the behavior.
I would let your vet know that their recommendation is a bit compulsion based(at least for the young puppy class)

gsdsar · 03-12-2013, 09:02 PM

Prongs should not be used until the pup is very good at commands. I would not put one on a dog under 8 months, probably not until a year.

Puppies need to learn how to learn. There should be a lot if waiting for the puppy to offer behaviors and reWrd what you want. I want a puppy to be throwing out every behavior in the book in the hopes if getting a treat.

Compulsion of any kind is only to be used when a dog turkey understand what is being asked and decided not to do it. A 4 month old puppy is NOT there yet.

If the pup is not responding, you are not giving a good enough reward.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App

03-12-2013, 03:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
rad10 New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10	Are "pop-release" corrections safe? So I started puppy class and they advocate the pop-release correction with a flat collar...i.e. giving slack on the leash, pulling back abruptly, then slacking again. Prior to this I'd been using noise/scruff grabs as corrections which is what the breeder told me to do as that's how the dog's mom's say "no". I've heard of (and done) these corrections with prong collars on other dogs, but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around them with a flat collar... Isn't that just essentially hitting the dog in the front of their neck? Isn't that going to cause damage? Or am I totally underestimating how tough their necks are...

03-12-2013, 04:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
WVGSD Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 1,231	If you have a young puppy, I would not be doing pop/release corrections at all. I would be using positive reinforcement/praise and food motivation for a very young puppy. __________________ Shannon Sabra - new GSD puppy - April 30, 2012 Max - rescue GSD - Dec 22, 2010 to March 7, 2012 Sable - rescue GSD - at the bridge

03-12-2013, 05:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
martemchik Knighted Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,455	It really depends on the dog. A prong is more effective in making the correction quicker and more exact, and also gets through to many dogs. A flat collar has the same effectiveness but you need a softer or more handler sensitive dog that doesn't really have a mind of its own. Many people have trained with just a flat collar using positive reinforcement or even some corrections, really depends on the dog. __________________ Rooney CD RE TC HIC 7/10

03-12-2013, 05:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Good_Karma Crowned Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Upstate, NY Posts: 4,649	I found leash pops to be useless. They do nothing to teach the dog what you want, they only interrupt a behavior. There are kinder ways of doing that, especially on a puppy. __________________ Leah: Newbie dog owner Niko: American Showline GSD 3 1/2 years old Rosa: American Muppet Dog (GSD/Border Collie mix) 4 years old

03-12-2013, 06:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cassidy's Mom No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 27,388	How old is your puppy? In a puppy class the question shouldn't be whether one type of correction is safer than another, it should be why are you using corrections to train new behaviors with a young puppy. __________________ -Debbie- Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 Forever would have been too short Keefer 8/25/05 Halo 11/9/08 FDCh-G TF-III Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04

03-12-2013, 04:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
mycobraracr Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,383	Yes you're correct on the damage thought. That's why prongs are so nice, you don't have to use as much force. That being said I would not use these techniques on a puppy at all. Puppies need all positive fun training. If your trainer is still advocating that, I might look into another trainer.

03-12-2013, 06:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cassidy's Mom No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 27,388	I just checked your earlier posts and it looks like this is a 13/14 week old puppy? Wow. I definitely wouldn't be in a class that used leash corrections on a puppy that young. Where do you live? Are there other options for classes near you? __________________ -Debbie- Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 Forever would have been too short Keefer 8/25/05 Halo 11/9/08 FDCh-G TF-III Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04

03-12-2013, 08:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
rad10 New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10	Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'm not using them, I was kind of surprised that they were. Yes, he's 13 weeks today, actually. The only time I have is when he tries to run out into the street on walks to chase the cars (yes.. we've graduated from "what are those big scary things!" to "ooh, can I play with them?!" sigh). Personally I don't think a puppy that young needs corrections during training unless they're doing something that's going to endanger his/her life, but from a more general curiosity standpoint I was wondering if they were even safe at all, even on older dogs. I'm near Peoria, IL. I know of one other training place nearby, but I had opted for this one because it was closer and my vet recommended it more (I didn't know anyone else in the area with dogs to ask). So far, I'm not impressed and probably won't be back for obedience, but it's good socialization for him if nothing else. Also (I'm not thinking about it any time soon, but just to keep in the back of my mind..) when is a reasonable age to switch to a prong for training? I'm hoping I won't have to - trying to go the positive reinforcement route - but he's already a very confident, stubborn, and strong willed pup and he's quickly going to be much stronger than I am.

03-12-2013, 08:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 21,167	Usually prongs are introduced at around 6-8 months...some dogs never need a prong. Some dogs shouldn't wear a prong if the prong ramps up the behavior. I would let your vet know that their recommendation is a bit compulsion based(at least for the young puppy class) __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

03-12-2013, 09:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
gsdsar Knighted Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,145	Are "pop-release" corrections safe? Prongs should not be used until the pup is very good at commands. I would not put one on a dog under 8 months, probably not until a year. Puppies need to learn how to learn. There should be a lot if waiting for the puppy to offer behaviors and reWrd what you want. I want a puppy to be throwing out every behavior in the book in the hopes if getting a treat. Compulsion of any kind is only to be used when a dog turkey understand what is being asked and decided not to do it. A 4 month old puppy is NOT there yet. If the pup is not responding, you are not giving a good enough reward. Sent from Petguide.com Free App __________________ SARDOM Hanah Ike Lena

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